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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

999 replies

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 12:56

I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

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Roussette · 14/03/2021 19:40

Mercy that thread is something else. Just shocking. And it';s what women are up against

BrightYellowDaffodil · 14/03/2021 19:40

And there may well have been people there who wanted to cause trouble but they seem to be massively over-represented when it comes to explaining why things turned as they did. It’s almost like women’s anger and determination to accept the status quo no longer needs to be minimised and silenced, isn’t it? Or that a minority of troublemakers (if indeed that’s what they were) justifies the sort of policing we all saw.

It’s also worth reading the BBC link I posted above, where it clearly states that some of those causing the trouble were - surprise sur-fucking-prise - men.

BetaSasquatch · 14/03/2021 19:43

For me it comes down to one question: having seen the images from last night, would I feel more or less safe knowing the Met Police were nearby (for any reason)?

Until yesterday I'd have felt more safe. The images from yesterday have caused me to question that viewpoint. That's a deep shame in a country that polices by consent.

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 19:44

Its appalling So where is the justice?!

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 19:45

@BrightYellowDaffodil we need to have a huge voice, but that was - no way - the time to express anger and determination. It should have been the time for quiet respect. People went there to protest, and things turned sour.

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1stmonkey · 14/03/2021 19:46

Still some people on this thread refuse to say it's not okay for that woman to be restrained the way she was.

Yet another example of an extreme lack of awareness that is running rampant on mumsnet today. Restraint and arrest procedures as laid out and approved by the Home Office. Protocols and processes laid out and approved by the Home Office. Laws and public order regulations as laid out by the Home Office. You are directing your outrage at the wrong people.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 14/03/2021 19:47

@BarometerTV You may feel like that but others don’t. I feel that this IS the time to be saying “Enough is enough”.

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 19:51

@BetaSasquatch I was attacked once on the way home from a nightclub. I was walking alone. I screamed at the man - NO - and he backed off. I went to the police the next day, and I was listened to - and dealt with with utmost respect. I felt they were there for me. I would hope that the majority of women would receive a similar level of treatment - and I believe they would. In order to improve, we do not hold banners saying ‘fuck the police”.

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OverTheRubicon · 14/03/2021 19:53

@BarometerTV

If it had been a teacher who was involved, would we be protesting against teachers?
People weren't protesting against the police, but in support of womens' safety.
OverTheRubicon · 14/03/2021 19:53

Or to be fair, some where, but not the majority...

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 19:53

I haven’t read the whole thread, but I was there last night from around 5pm

By 5pm, the police helicopter had already been hovering overhead for about an hour.
The route I walked was about 0.3mile and there were probably about 12 police, in pairs, just quietly standing off the paths, chatting to each other but ignoring the people walking towards the bandstand.

At the bandstand, 95% of people were wearing masks, keeping their distance. Most were walking to the front and placing a flower or note and then pulling back.

As the sun set, someone starting playing a drum and there was some sort of speech. I didn’t hear much of it, but I did hear someone say ‘we were going to try and get a sound system here but were told it wouldn’t be a good idea so we are going to have to shout instead’

There were chants of ‘who’s streets, our streets’ and ‘sisters united, together forever’

There was a minutes silence and then what seemed to be someone reading out the names of other women killed.

There was a bit of a split between people moving forward to hear what was being said on the bandstand. Most stood where they were listening and occasionally joining in with with ‘who’s streets our streets’ chants

Sometime around 9, it became obvious there were a lot more police around. They had been steadily ringing the wider group until they had us surrounded

Then out of nowhere, and certainly not promoted by anything said or done by the protesters, they began forcing everyone forward, while shouting ‘move back’ or ‘move away from the area’. Pretty much everyone was saying ‘how can I move back when you were pushing us forward’
They just kept shouting, which was obviously enormously frustrating.
This is probably when they ‘shouldn’t you be getting your own house in order’, ‘arrest your own, not us’ comments started, which escalated into the ‘fuck the police’ chants

The police were still pushing everyone into a tighter and tighter group and then pushed through the crowd to get themselves right to the front on the bottom of and into the bandstand. It was probably 5 mins from start to finish? Maybe longer?

At this point, I had managed to move out the back, because I was already on the edge when they started pushing forward. But anyone further forward wouldn’t have stood a chance getting out.

Whatever male groups started vandalising police vans were over by the Windmill pub. It’s obvious from the video footage they aren’t by the bandstand so it’s ridiculous to suggest the police had to treat it as one incident
Look up the windmill and the bandstand on Google maps...

I didn’t see or hear any anti police chants until the police got heavy handed. I didn’t hear much at all from the bandstand because they didn’t have a sound system.

As someone said on a thread last night, if the Met had sent 20 female officers to stand quietly to keep an eye and look sympathetic, the whole thing would have been done and dusted by 10pm

Instead, they threw a hand grenade into a cross but controlled situation.

MeribleMelon · 14/03/2021 19:54

I’m normally on the side of the police, they see and deal with some utterly awful things. When everyone is running away they go in to protect us. I’m related to several serving police men and women, good humans with good hearts.
BUT what on earth were they doing? It just looked like peaceful women standing around.
I suppose the difficulty comes with Covid restrictions, but in that case go ahead and hand out fines if people aren’t complying with social distancing, don’t start being heavy handed.
Nobody did that to Dominic Cummings when he broke lock down rules

Laska2Meryls · 14/03/2021 19:57

BBC What went wrong at the vigil

This is a Direct Quote in case its not been posted yet ..
I have italicized the last line but its direct from the news story ...

"Patsy Stevenson, the red-haired woman caught on camera being handcuffed on the ground at the bandstand, received a £200 Covid fine as police tried to remove her from the area.

She has not been accused of, or charged with, violence - but was there any elsewhere?

There was definitely a lot of anger - with some of the crowd chanting obscenities at the police at one point.

And pictures obtained by the Press Association clearly show three instances of officers being forcibly shoved and a van's wing mirror being deliberately vandalised. Guess what? All three instances involved men, not women. "

MeribleMelon · 14/03/2021 19:57

Thanks @Sparechange for the insight, it seems like this was handled awfully by the police. Sorry you had to see it.
The frustrating thing is, most police officers are fine. This order will have come from above.
Most likely ‘this crowd gathering makes us look awful during Covid, get rid of it’
Terrible decision

BrightYellowDaffodil · 14/03/2021 19:57

From Janice Turner’s latest column in the Times (who was at the front of the crowd, it would seem):

“[Had the Met] allowed an organised event with a PA system, women would have listened to a few speeches then gone home. But after marking a minute’s silence, people still stood around expectantly, most wearing masks. A few tried to speak from the stage but couldn’t be heard. So candles were lit, more flowers laid. Then, as darkness fell, the police moved in to eject people from the bandstand. Some were feminist activists, others the kind of male Socialist Workers Party, anti-police rent-a-crew who pitch up at every demo. (Piers Corbyn was there.)

Then the Met did the dumbest thing of all. Police started to push through and form a circle around the bandstand, between women and the floral tributes. I was right at the front and could hear tea-lights crunch under size-11 boots. “They’re treading on her flowers,” women cried. A solemn gathering turned instantly into a furious crowd.”

And that is - in a nutshell - everything that went wrong. If they’d allowed a properly organised vigil, which they had the discretion to do under law, there would almost certainly been a “That’s it everyone, please go home and light a candle there” moment and the trouble-making minority wouldn’t have had their moment. But they did - there was a void, it got filled in the worst possible way, and as soon as the police started trampling on flowers and candles it was always going to go horribly wrong. If I’d been there, I’d have damn well protested vociferously at that sight.

This could so, so easily have been avoided, as seen in the place where vigils passed off without a problem.

Laska2Meryls · 14/03/2021 19:58

soryy that qoute didnt work..but from the BBC report above

.. And pictures obtained by the Press Association clearly show three instances of officers being forcibly shoved and a van's wing mirror being deliberately vandalised. Guess what? All three instances involved men, not women.

Roussette · 14/03/2021 19:59

@Sparechange

Thank you for that.
You are who I listen to. You were there.

The Police handled this spectacularly wrong.

Laska2Meryls · 14/03/2021 20:02

I am So cross that it seems that I cannot even type!! Apologies

LucieStar · 14/03/2021 20:02

[quote Roussette]@Sparechange

Thank you for that.
You are who I listen to. You were there.

The Police handled this spectacularly wrong.[/quote]

@peaceanddove was also there ... is her contrasting account invalid?

Livelovebehappy · 14/03/2021 20:03

sparechange nothing in your post convinces me that the vigil was peaceful. I think last night was so disrespectful towards the family and friends of Sarah. Do people honestly believe that her family wanted people to pay their respects in this way, having praised the police throughout the investigations into Sarah’s disappearance? What happened last night was so wrong.

Dorsetdays · 14/03/2021 20:03

@sparechange. Totally accept that was your experience of the event. My niece who was also there had a very different experience as I mentioned further up thread.

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 20:04

@Roussette - while clearly ignoring @peaceanddove’s account...

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LucieStar · 14/03/2021 20:04

[quote Dorsetdays]@sparechange. Totally accept that was your experience of the event. My niece who was also there had a very different experience as I mentioned further up thread.[/quote]

So did @peaceanddove's family members...

Sparechange · 14/03/2021 20:04

@Laska2Meryls

soryy that qoute didnt work..but from the BBC report above

.. And pictures obtained by the Press Association clearly show three instances of officers being forcibly shoved and a van's wing mirror being deliberately vandalised. Guess what? All three instances involved men, not women.

Yes, and that footage was QUITE OBVIOUSLY filmed next to The Windmill.

The vigil took place at the Bandstand.

Please take a moment to look at Google maps and see for yourself how those are separate locations and unconnected events.

If 2 pubs were that far around, you wouldn’t attribute a fight at one to being a fight in both.

The police had quite visibly parked their vans outside the windmill and that attracted a crowd by the looks of it.
But those people WERE NOT at the bandstand. They weren’t at the vigil. They were looking for police to fight and didn’t go any further once they found them.

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