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Priti Patel wants to ban protest. Bill going through this week.

258 replies

flashbac · 14/03/2021 08:22

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is some scary looking stuff. 10 year sentence for being at any protest that, amongst other things, causes or is at risk of causing 'serious annoyance'. That's all protests then is it?
The right to protest is the cornerstone of every democracy.
Aibu to be scared about where this is heading?

OP posts:
Stellaris22 · 14/03/2021 22:25

Anyone who doesn't view this as terrifying is deluded. Personally I'm scared at the rights being taken away from people. Between this and the actions of the police against a peaceful vigil, I'm worried about the future.

Why are the government doing this? What on earth are they planning that they want to prevent our rights to protest?

SunscreenCentral · 14/03/2021 23:09

@FrankButchersDickieBow

Priti Patel, is actually evil. I mean, proper evil.

There Re few people on this earth who are actually evil, but I swear to god, she is one of them.

I agree. She is terrifying. When she threatened to “starve” the Irish during one the Brexit battles, everything in me shuddered.
Ireland is in the top 3 of Food Secure countries on the globe and she can’t get her cold, dead hands next or near us THANK FUCK - but she wasn’t afraid to try to ring the Famine bell. Shows who she is.
MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 23:14

@Theluggage15 There is another poster (one who was one of the biggest ones crying out for more and more and tighter and tighter restrictions) now posting on another thread about the vigil. Trying to minimize what happened. Doubling down i believe its called.

MercyBooth · 14/03/2021 23:17

@TempsPerdu Agree.

Graphista · 14/03/2021 23:20

Although... I kind of hope they do, and the Tories end up as tainted, despised and scorned as they did in the 90s.

Same

But that said I have emailed my Mp about this

It's an absolutely appalling, oppressive and controlling piece of potential legislation

@Mooda did you honestly expect kier to be a decent, socialist leaning labour leader? With his background?

If Labour merely abstain then what is the point of them

They need to go too, they no longer represent the people they are supposed to, we need a new party that represents the working class and otherwise disenfranchised

This terrifies me. We are truly sleepwalking to a police state

Absolutely.

I expect the next elections will be cancelled “for your safety.”

Apparently plans are for postal votes are to be abolished and photo ID will be required - to prevent non existent voting fraud!

I'm disabled and housebound, I have no passport as it's bloody expensive to have when I can't afford holidays, and I don't have a license at the moment as for several years I was on meds that meant I couldn't drive and now I can't afford a car either.

It also means my parents wouldn't be able to vote, so as they are over 70 and would statistically age wise be more likely to vote Tory they could slightly be shooting themselves in the Foot though I suspect they have crunched the numbers and this is not much of an issue.

I've found that almost no one I know had heard this bill was coming, and most people seem totally unaware of the damage this will do to our democracy.

Same - the appalling lack of ethical journalism in this country in the msm is a Fucking disgrace

I've just heard on radio that Labour is going to vote against the Bill.

Really hope it's true, not holding my breath

The hypocrisy and stupidity of Priti Patel is beyond a joke.

Hypocrite, dangerous, vile even yes, stupid? Far from unfortunately

Met shouldn't have even been at that vigil imo- whole other thread which I am on

I suspect that workers rights will be next er hello brexit already started that

This has been in the making for approximately 20 I'd say over 40

I would urge those of you who are against this and haven't already to email your mps now - of whatever party. Mine is snp but is a good man and I would be very surprised if he supported this or even abstained, but it's still good to contact them

What else can we do?

I'd like to know this too, what stage is the bill at has it been to the lords yet?

Just checked, it's not gone to the lords yet so I'm thinking to email lords although I have no idea who - anyone more informed able to say

In bold so anyone who knows the answer can see the question

I was deeply impressed by the way they handled the maternity bill mess

Are we not coming to an end of lockdown with restrictions easing somewhat in April?

If you believe that I have a tower in London to sell you or possibly magic beans...

The pandemic is a convenient excuse.

At this point it's impossible to avoid Godwin's law!

The nazis used the excuse of a failing economy, this govt is using the pandemic similarly

@mellongoose I can't link the pdf but you can access it and read the details here

bills.parliament.uk/bills/2839

Part 3 "public order" which is on p56 is the most relevant portion

I'm summarising but basically any gathering that is deemed to be noisy, inconvenient or disruptive will be outlawed and those found guilty may receive custodial sentences - British citizens will literally be political prisoners

The levels of noise etc they are talking about are fairly minimal - about the level you'd get in a busy high street on a normal Saturday for comparative purposes

It IS in real terms banning all physical, in person protesting

But then it appears your "naïveté" was not real!

Keir starmer shouldn't need "political nous" to have understood what a shit bill this is - he was a senior lawyer ffs!

@MercyBooth excellent quote

People will snap when pushed into a corner, however placid they were until that point

Seems to me that it could potentially put people off organising any kind of protest through the fear of prosecution.

Which is precisely the point

have you read the Policy Paper?

And that's a lazy and patronising way to argue against people who hold a different opinion to you

So is using one VERY small - and contradictory - part of that document to try and claim the rest of it doesn't matter!

And drop the use of misogynist and outdated insults too please

@bourbonic what it was in response to is largely irrelevant, it's the future effects which matter

And frankly nothing ever really changes without some disruption and damage to the status quo

Do you think suffragettes or anti apartheid or anti racism or jarrow marchers or anyone who protested for civil liberties throughout the 20th century and even in the 19th century were out of order for their actions? (Which were often a lot more "disruptive" than modern protests)

Shameful attitude to have - particularly if you're someone who has benefitted from the rights those people gained for oppressed groups

I have no real issue with it. As much as I support people's right to protest

You're contradicting yourself right there

@Frazzled2207 don't lose heart, just because someone hasn't reacted on fb doesn't mean they're unconcerned and inactive, I tend to not be political on my fb mainly as I have poor mh and in the past it's led to me being harassed online (I have since tightened my privacy settings but fb are constantly messing with these) but I do discuss these things with people privately and I do what I can in other ways

@Icantreachthepretzels another great quote thank you

I did really think that fundamentally Johnson was a libertarian

Genuine question - why did you think that? He's never come across that way to me

What on earth are they planning that they want to prevent our rights to protest?

This is what concerns me too, and by "govt" I include all parties, I can't help but think Labour at least know exactly why they're doing it and aren't saying

@MercyBooth that the thread I'm on too? I'm deeply suspicious of that poster and have reported

Sstrongtn · 14/03/2021 23:25

We’re heading straight at the far right or the far left and nothing in between, have said it for a long time and either way is absolutely terrifying.

Every single person that said Covid was being used as a smokescreen was called a tin foil hatter though.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 14/03/2021 23:39

@Sstrongtn

We’re heading straight at the far right or the far left and nothing in between, have said it for a long time and either way is absolutely terrifying.

Every single person that said Covid was being used as a smokescreen was called a tin foil hatter though.

Ive been wondering what this far left people keep talking about, the overton window has shifted so far to the right in both here and the US that I dont think anyone in rgis country knows what hard left is anymore, and if Corbynism is your go to for hard left then I thank you for proving my first point correctly

I cant believe people are suprised by this, Thatcher (fucking witch) broke the power of the unions for good or bad in the 80's, their power further eroded by Camerons lot and now they want to introduce this, perhaps this is them planning ahead for when the Brexit 'dividend' becomes more apparent to those who voted for it

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 14/03/2021 23:44

10 years. !!!!!TEN FUCKIN YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!. Dirty nonces get a suspended sentence!! Angry doesn't even come within a decillion miles of how I'm feeling. Yet they moan that the prisons are over crowded. Not only that but. Where exactly are the going to put these people!!!!!!!!

sipsmith1 · 14/03/2021 23:53

@mellongoose thank goodness somebody is going beyond the headlines intended to rile people up! I agree with it if it stops things like this happening www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/man-missed-fathers-death-after-3109160.amp

wherearemychickens · 14/03/2021 23:56

Have emailed my MP today about this. Scarily authoritarian.

boobot1 · 15/03/2021 00:10

@dreamingbohemian

It's both frightening and enraging

If Labour merely abstain then what is the point of them

This is what annoys me, both parties equally useless, yet people still vote for them. There's no hope.
Mittens030869 · 15/03/2021 00:15

Labour are at least voting against this bill. Starmar also said that the vigil should have been allowed to happen. So there is some opposition at least.

Graphista · 15/03/2021 00:16

perhaps this is them planning ahead for when the Brexit 'dividend' becomes more apparent to those who voted for it

That thought crossed my mind too

Especially as I'm seeing more and more news articles and sm reports about businesses starting to realise the impact on them. And not just small businesses either but larger companies who are traditionally Tory supporting and sponsoring. Tories will have less control if they have less money behind them and that probably scares the shit out of them

boobot1 · 15/03/2021 00:17

@Theluggage15

This doesn’t surprise me. The government have been watching with great pleasure the way in which a large proportion of the population have loved all the authoritarian measures that have been brought in as a response to covid. Look at all the many comments about locking people up for breaking a rule, refusing NHS treatment for rule breakers and for people who don’t want the vaccine. Virtually frothing at the mouth that U.K. lockdowns have been half hearted and should have been like China’s, they seem to love being told what they’re ‘allowed’ to do.

I think the past year has shown that the U.K. population really doesn’t care about free speech and human rights, if the government says it will keep them ‘safe’ they happily nod along to anything they’re told.

You're right it's sickening
Blacktothepink · 15/03/2021 00:19

Fucking terrifying!

Viviennemary · 15/03/2021 00:20

I agree. I am sick of agitating troublemakers. These people were told the vigil couldn't go ahead. The original organisers asked people not to gather. And yet they did. The police handling was bad. That's why more clarification is needed.

Dowser · 15/03/2021 00:23

@Graphista

Although... I kind of hope they do, and the Tories end up as tainted, despised and scorned as they did in the 90s.

Same

But that said I have emailed my Mp about this

It's an absolutely appalling, oppressive and controlling piece of potential legislation

@Mooda did you honestly expect kier to be a decent, socialist leaning labour leader? With his background?

If Labour merely abstain then what is the point of them

They need to go too, they no longer represent the people they are supposed to, we need a new party that represents the working class and otherwise disenfranchised

This terrifies me. We are truly sleepwalking to a police state

Absolutely.

I expect the next elections will be cancelled “for your safety.”

Apparently plans are for postal votes are to be abolished and photo ID will be required - to prevent non existent voting fraud!

I'm disabled and housebound, I have no passport as it's bloody expensive to have when I can't afford holidays, and I don't have a license at the moment as for several years I was on meds that meant I couldn't drive and now I can't afford a car either.

It also means my parents wouldn't be able to vote, so as they are over 70 and would statistically age wise be more likely to vote Tory they could slightly be shooting themselves in the Foot though I suspect they have crunched the numbers and this is not much of an issue.

I've found that almost no one I know had heard this bill was coming, and most people seem totally unaware of the damage this will do to our democracy.

Same - the appalling lack of ethical journalism in this country in the msm is a Fucking disgrace

I've just heard on radio that Labour is going to vote against the Bill.

Really hope it's true, not holding my breath

The hypocrisy and stupidity of Priti Patel is beyond a joke.

Hypocrite, dangerous, vile even yes, stupid? Far from unfortunately

Met shouldn't have even been at that vigil imo- whole other thread which I am on

I suspect that workers rights will be next er hello brexit already started that

This has been in the making for approximately 20 I'd say over 40

I would urge those of you who are against this and haven't already to email your mps now - of whatever party. Mine is snp but is a good man and I would be very surprised if he supported this or even abstained, but it's still good to contact them

What else can we do?

I'd like to know this too, what stage is the bill at has it been to the lords yet?

Just checked, it's not gone to the lords yet so I'm thinking to email lords although I have no idea who - anyone more informed able to say

In bold so anyone who knows the answer can see the question

I was deeply impressed by the way they handled the maternity bill mess

Are we not coming to an end of lockdown with restrictions easing somewhat in April?

If you believe that I have a tower in London to sell you or possibly magic beans...

The pandemic is a convenient excuse.

At this point it's impossible to avoid Godwin's law!

The nazis used the excuse of a failing economy, this govt is using the pandemic similarly

@mellongoose I can't link the pdf but you can access it and read the details here

bills.parliament.uk/bills/2839

Part 3 "public order" which is on p56 is the most relevant portion

I'm summarising but basically any gathering that is deemed to be noisy, inconvenient or disruptive will be outlawed and those found guilty may receive custodial sentences - British citizens will literally be political prisoners

The levels of noise etc they are talking about are fairly minimal - about the level you'd get in a busy high street on a normal Saturday for comparative purposes

It IS in real terms banning all physical, in person protesting

But then it appears your "naïveté" was not real!

Keir starmer shouldn't need "political nous" to have understood what a shit bill this is - he was a senior lawyer ffs!

@MercyBooth excellent quote

People will snap when pushed into a corner, however placid they were until that point

Seems to me that it could potentially put people off organising any kind of protest through the fear of prosecution.

Which is precisely the point

have you read the Policy Paper?

And that's a lazy and patronising way to argue against people who hold a different opinion to you

So is using one VERY small - and contradictory - part of that document to try and claim the rest of it doesn't matter!

And drop the use of misogynist and outdated insults too please

@bourbonic what it was in response to is largely irrelevant, it's the future effects which matter

And frankly nothing ever really changes without some disruption and damage to the status quo

Do you think suffragettes or anti apartheid or anti racism or jarrow marchers or anyone who protested for civil liberties throughout the 20th century and even in the 19th century were out of order for their actions? (Which were often a lot more "disruptive" than modern protests)

Shameful attitude to have - particularly if you're someone who has benefitted from the rights those people gained for oppressed groups

I have no real issue with it. As much as I support people's right to protest

You're contradicting yourself right there

@Frazzled2207 don't lose heart, just because someone hasn't reacted on fb doesn't mean they're unconcerned and inactive, I tend to not be political on my fb mainly as I have poor mh and in the past it's led to me being harassed online (I have since tightened my privacy settings but fb are constantly messing with these) but I do discuss these things with people privately and I do what I can in other ways

@Icantreachthepretzels another great quote thank you

I did really think that fundamentally Johnson was a libertarian

Genuine question - why did you think that? He's never come across that way to me

What on earth are they planning that they want to prevent our rights to protest?

This is what concerns me too, and by "govt" I include all parties, I can't help but think Labour at least know exactly why they're doing it and aren't saying

@MercyBooth that the thread I'm on too? I'm deeply suspicious of that poster and have reported

Baroness jane campbell, Tanni grey Thompson and sue masham all seem to be human
mummabear74 · 15/03/2021 00:31

I'm aghast at the bill and have just emailed my MP.

Graphista · 15/03/2021 00:36

@Dowser thank you.

I haven't found any information on how the lords system works in terms of do we have a particular lord that represents our constituency?

And to contradict myself I just found:

https://www.writetothem.com/lords

You can search for the "right"
Lord to write to based on topic or location affiliations

I searched based on "civil liberties" and top result was:

Lord McNally:

Who apparently said last year

to clip the wings of individuals or institutions who frustrate or slow down the revolution on which we are about to embark. This House has a special duty to safeguard our democratic freedoms and civil liberties from the abuses of what the late Lord Hailsham described so magnificently as our “elective dictatorship”

It's late but tomorrow I will work my way through results and do plenty of writing!

I would encourage others who feel similarly to do likewise

littledrummergirl · 15/03/2021 00:39

I wrote to my Conservative mp today. They are first term but have previously abstained (free school meals). Hopefully they will vote on the right side of this.

I don't want to be looked after by the state, I am an individual who wants the freedom to live independently, without being infantalised. The police are supposed to be there to facilitate this, not to force control on to me. This bill would take away trust in the police and any consent that I have for them to exist.

The government are on thin ice.

Graphista · 15/03/2021 00:42

I think it's also pertinent to mention that the domestic abuse bill is also going through at the moment

Graphista · 15/03/2021 00:43

The government are on thin ice.

I wish it were so

Graphista · 15/03/2021 00:45

I've also now discovered there is an advanced search function there.

As i said, getting late, will go at it properly tomorrow

Wilsonwilson · 15/03/2021 00:55

Anyone on mumsnet asking any questions about current events is shouted down and subjected to scorn and derision, labelled covidiots and tin foil hatters. On the other hand they can perfectly see how people conspire to enact the gender agenda. To do backhanded deals to slip laws in under cover and to capture organisations. Double plus double think.

NoWordForFluffy · 15/03/2021 06:34

@JustAnotherPoster00

Anybody deliberately calling Keir Keith just looks like an idiot and undermines any argument they might raise.

Aww bless, ill make sure I make extra effort to call him keith from now on then Smile

Ooh. And patronising twaddle to go along with.

Corbyn was useless. The electorate didn't want him. If the far left of Labour put as much effort into actually working out that the country doesn't want a left wing government as it did trying to undermine the leader, the party might not be in as much trouble!

The Corbyn fans using Keith really do look childish. But their style is very 'sixth form politics' generally, so it's not really surprising.

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