Priti Patel wants to ban protest. Bill going through this week.

[flashbac]

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is some scary looking stuff. 10 year sentence for being at any protest that, amongst other things, causes or is at risk of causing 'serious annoyance'. That's all protests then is it?
The right to protest is the cornerstone of every democracy.
Aibu to be scared about where this is heading?

for me it's just like all the normal liberal daily life freedoms we've had trashed in last year. But ok, make this your hill to die on.

@flashbac

With the risk of sounding like I'm going on a rant or that I'm a tin foil hatter, also don't forget the existence of 'Spycops' law, which will allow public bodies, ranging from the police, MI5 to the Food Standards Agency, to authorise agents to commit crimes while undercover. This could mean a protest - if you can manage the impossible feat of holding one that doesn't risk causing any noise or annoyance - is purposely undermined by someone working undercover.

Given that members of the met will allegedly commit serious crimes I doubt this bill will make much difference if they feel so inclined.

Priti Patel has got a bloody nerve to be asking for an investigation into last night on the one hand and proposing this bill on the other.

Really scary.

Probably will be the darkest day in recent British history.

When does it come into force? I hope there is a spring/summer of protests.

Ian Dunt is - not for the first time - talking absolute nonsense.

“Serious disruption” is a well-established and defined concept. The changes bring “static” protests in line with equivalent provisions that apply to marches / processions under s12 Public Order Act.

To help Ian out, no, a protest does not cause serious disruption just because it may “[distract] employees in a nearby office”. Nor would a peaceful vigil in a park cause serious disruption.

Examples of things that could cause serious disruption might include:

• blocking a bridge or road to stop pedestrians and/or traffic from getting through;
• preventing a train from leaving a station;
• physically preventing a printing press from operating because you disagree with the editorial position of that publication.

This might help https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill-2021-factsheets/police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill-2021-protest-powers-factsheet

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Kier Starmer is surrounded by poor advisors. If he had any political nous he would’ve instinctively known this Bill was undemocratic and sinister, yet he was ok to abstain until it was clear which way the wind was blowing.

Patel is only distancing herself from the police now as the pictures of middle class women getting the black man treatment are putting her Bill at risk. Even DM readers will be wondering whether they will be impacted. What if their kids get kettled, arrested and a criminal record at uni for protesting about tuition fees or something?

We also know none of these emergency Covid laws will be repealed once Covid is over.

Keith is way too busy trying to fight the left, which would be the obvious target from the unity candidate, instead of the current government

They’re seriously getting to the point where there will be another Poll Tax situation - full on rage and non-compliance. Don’t push people too far. Especially not after the year we’ve had.

No they won't. The British public will do as they are told, only have to see how willing people on here were willing to snitch on their neighbours to know that the how apathetic the general public is

Even the British will go full French when pushed too far. Poll tax riots showed that.

Will they?

This is 2021. Everybody follows the rules these days and don't question or can't be bothered to stir themselves from the sofa. Just trying to survive within their own family and develop an im alright Jack attitude.

People just can't be bothered these days. Of the poll tax thing happened in 2021 no one would bat an eyelid.might be a few mutterings but I reckon would just get on with it. And pay it

My dh said this would happen, this time last year.
I told him to stfu with his conspiracy theories
I hope he's not right on the others.
He's not an anti vaxer, flat earter, micro chip, etc theorist. But he does seem to see the depths that gov will go to, especially this one.

Why are we not angrier about this? What can we do?

Quite a few of us were sounding warnings about this on the Covid board for the last year. We were branded Covid deniers and anti lockdowners. But we told you so.

DH has just quoted this

"Dont scare someone so much that the person forgets what fear is"

They might just get away with it.

If you look at the news articles/ broadcasts over the last 12 months there is hardly anything worthwhile noting.

A lot of European citizens have been protesting against lockdown rules and curfews in their countries. Some governments have been taken to court over this...
There is minimal media coverage here about keeping our freedoms and democracy.

There are more news stories that seem to have been suppressed...

So to those that think this is all perfectly fine: what happens to a peaceful protest that is infiltrated by trouble makers? Are the organisers then liable to a potential ten year sentence? And the bbc are mentioning noise limits; how do you control exactly how much noise gets made? Will the police be waiting with decibel meters ready to pounce?

Seems to me that it could potentially put people off organising any kind of protest through the fear of prosecution.

“People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people.”

I’m getting serious V for Vendetta vibes from this.

[quote mellongoose]Ian Dunt is - not for the first time - talking absolute nonsense.

“Serious disruption” is a well-established and defined concept. The changes bring “static” protests in line with equivalent provisions that apply to marches / processions under s12 Public Order Act.

To help Ian out, no, a protest does not cause serious disruption just because it may “[distract] employees in a nearby office”. Nor would a peaceful vigil in a park cause serious disruption.

Examples of things that could cause serious disruption might include:

• blocking a bridge or road to stop pedestrians and/or traffic from getting through;
• preventing a train from leaving a station;
• physically preventing a printing press from operating because you disagree with the editorial position of that publication.

This might help [[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill-2021-factsheets/police-crime-sentencing-and-courts-bill-2021-protest-powers-factsheet]][/quote]
respectfully I don't think he's spouting nonsense. He is saying that 'noise' could come under serious disruption and that crucially, the Home Secretary will have the discretion to say whether or not a protest constitutes serious disruption or not.

Frankly, I don't think any of us want to get to a situation that it's Priti Patel's call whether or not we get arrested for attending a peaceful protest.

@blackheartsgirl

They’re seriously getting to the point where there will be another Poll Tax situation - full on rage and non-compliance. Don’t push people too far. Especially not after the year we’ve had.

No they won't. The British public will do as they are told, only have to see how willing people on here were willing to snitch on their neighbours to know that the how apathetic the general public is

It's the general apathy of the British public on stuff so fundamental that I find most concerning tbh

@blackheartsgirl

Will they?

This is 2021. Everybody follows the rules these days and don't question or can't be bothered to stir themselves from the sofa. Just trying to survive within their own family and develop an im alright Jack attitude.

People just can't be bothered these days. Of the poll tax thing happened in 2021 no one would bat an eyelid.might be a few mutterings but I reckon would just get on with it. And pay it

Exactly this.

Most people these days seem to actually want authoritarian rule. I used to think the Daily Mail comments section was just a very small hateful section of society. Since 2016 I actually now think it is more representative of the country and society.

The general public hate minority groups, be it people protesting for equal rights, better pay and conditions or for women to be able to walk around safe at night. To these people the only thing that matters is that there are people worse off than themselves to look down on and that they can feel jingoistic about England and its exceptionalism.

England is not a kind country. Being racist, misogynistic and hateful is fairly mainstream and I don't see us getting a compassionate liberal government for at least a decade or two especially with a FPTP democracy that ensures those at the top end of society keep their power and wealth.

I agree with mellongoose. While you're all having hysterics, have you read the Policy Paper?

Paragraph 4.1 states:

"4.1 Will these measures undermine freedom of expression?
No, freedom of expression is a cornerstone of British democracy. The majority of protests in England and Wales are lawful and will be unaffected by these changes.

These measures will balance the rights of protesters with the rights of others to go about their business unhindered. They will achieve this by enabling the police to better manage highly disruptive protests."

I appreciate left wingers are desperate to bash this government whenever possible but to make up bullshit to fit your agenda is risible.

Keith is way too busy trying to fight the left, which would be the obvious target from the unity candidate, instead of the current government

Anybody deliberately calling Keir Keith just looks like an idiot and undermines any argument they might raise.

I agree that Priti looks like a raging hypocrite. And the Tories under Johnson are clearly only libertarian (or claim to be) when it suits / benefits them.

enabling the police to better manage highly disruptive protests

And you type this the day the front pages are plastered with images of a young woman attending a peaceful vigil with a police officers knee on her head

And that’s before this law has been enacted.

@Crankley

I agree with mellongoose. While you're all having hysterics, have you read the Policy Paper?

Paragraph 4.1 states:

"4.1 Will these measures undermine freedom of expression?
No, freedom of expression is a cornerstone of British democracy. The majority of protests in England and Wales are lawful and will be unaffected by these changes.

These measures will balance the rights of protesters with the rights of others to go about their business unhindered. They will achieve this by enabling the police to better manage highly disruptive protests."

I appreciate left wingers are desperate to bash this government whenever possible but to make up bullshit to fit your agenda is risible.

Ahhh the old “women are hysterical” line. Lock them all up in an asylum!

I am sorry Crankley, but the policy paper is not exactly an unbiased source of information...I mean, they are hardly going to say "Yes, this policy will make it more difficult to organise a protest".

Also, if there was a Labour government, would you be happy for them to have the ability to restrict your (sacrosanct) right to protest against them?

They want to protest because they know what is going to happen when this corrupt governments lies are exposed to the public, those who researched themselves are called 'conspiracy theorists' and insulted across MSM, they will be riots and I hope this lot go to prison for what they have done.

@hayley037

Spot on. Goddamn. Thank you for writing that, probably the best summation of this country I have read in years.