Priti Patel wants to ban protest. Bill going through this week.

[flashbac]

The Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill is some scary looking stuff. 10 year sentence for being at any protest that, amongst other things, causes or is at risk of causing 'serious annoyance'. That's all protests then is it?
The right to protest is the cornerstone of every democracy.
Aibu to be scared about where this is heading?

Up to 10 years in prison for an act or omission during protest that causes someone to suffer distress as a result of ''serious annoyance or serious inconvenience' - that is what is being proposed. Those who say we are overreacting, surely you can see that every protest would fall under this? This Bill significantly curtails our right to protest.

Of course it matters where the bill came from. People are implying that it's been rushed together in response to a vigil which was deemed illegal under covid law.

It wasn't. It was tabled in response to extinction rebellion holding the capital to ransom. And people were calling out for it at the time. Labour were supportive of it too.

There's an awful lot of "could" and not an awful lot of realistic views of what the legislation will actually be applied to. Hysteria helps nobody really.

There's an awful lot of "could" and not an awful lot of realistic views of what the legislation will actually be applied to.

That seems naive. If the law “could” do something but the government are saying it won’t actually be used that way, then why write it that way? Why not change it? If you weren’t going to use it that way then changing it so you can’t doesn’t make a difference.

England is not a kind country. Being racist, misogynistic and hateful is fairly mainstream and I don't see us getting a compassionate liberal government for at least a decade or two especially with a FPTP democracy

Agree with this, I'm really sad about where England is politically at the moment, it has backed itself into a very nasty corner it feels.

@ItWasTheBestOfTimes

Up to 10 years in prison for an act or omission during protest that causes someone to suffer distress as a result of ''serious annoyance or serious inconvenience' - that is what is being proposed. Those who say we are overreacting, surely you can see that every protest would fall under this? This Bill significantly curtails our right to protest.

They threaten people with jail for everything, but there simply isn't the capacity in prisons.

@ChameleonClara

England is not a kind country. Being racist, misogynistic and hateful is fairly mainstream and I don't see us getting a compassionate liberal government for at least a decade or two especially with a FPTP democracy

Agree with this, I'm really sad about where England is politically at the moment, it has backed itself into a very nasty corner it feels.

There's a big generational divide. Older voters have turned to the Conservatives in their droves, more than ever.

Labour can't win the next election without winning back older voters who've turned away from them in the last 10 years, but older voters (50+ at least) are as a majority increasingly socially conservative.

Corbyn was useless. The electorate didn't want him. If the far left of Labour put as much effort into actually working out that the country doesn't want a left wing government as it did trying to undermine the leader, the party might not be in as much trouble!

Youre very correct Corbyn was indeed a busted flush but it wasnt the 'far left' of Labout that was causing the party disharmony that can be laid at the feet of the centrists and their constant challanges and briefing to the press, and we were told if only we had a sensible leader of the opposition somebody like Keith, if Keith became Leader we would be 70billion points ahead of the Tories in the polls, yet here we are, Keiths getting an easy ride in the press, Boris fucking up everything he touches and yet Labour are still behind in the polls and Keith is busy fighting the left, glad I left as 1000's of others have too

@JustAnotherPoster00

It's easy to blame Corbyn but the question that needs asking is how did he become leader in the first place? The party had completely run out of ideas. New Labour was a busted flush and the leadership candidates in 2015 were uninspiring. None of them were on the left of the party and Corbyn was encouraged to run and then won. Labour then massively increased their vote from 2015 to 2017, but the next election was all about Brexit which the Labour Right insisted had to be run on a second referendum platform.

[quote User133847]@JustAnotherPoster00

It's easy to blame Corbyn but the question that needs asking is how did he become leader in the first place? The party had completely run out of ideas. New Labour was a busted flush and the leadership candidates in 2015 were uninspiring. None of them were on the left of the party and Corbyn was encouraged to run and then won. Labour then massively increased their vote from 2015 to 2017, but the next election was all about Brexit which the Labour Right insisted had to be run on a second referendum platform.[/quote]
This is a flawed analysis, imo.

Corbyn was a dreadful leader, leaving all internal left-right party debates aside. He just wasn't a credible candidate for PM.

@ChameleonClara

Yes he should never have been leader, but Labour would have sealed their own fate whoever was leader due to their Brexit policy which cost them their own heartlands and lifelong voters.

Protests are never peaceful, they nearly always get taken over ppl who want to cause a riot. They should be banned.

The violence at the Virgil this weekend! Does anyone think that helped? Hijacking a family’s grief to protest is not acceptable.

[quote User133847]@ChameleonClara

Yes he should never have been leader, but Labour would have sealed their own fate whoever was leader due to their Brexit policy which cost them their own heartlands and lifelong voters.[/quote]
Let's not get into how the referendum might have gone with a proper Labour leader

@HOkieCOkie

Protests are never peaceful, they nearly always get taken over ppl who want to cause a riot. They should be banned.

The violence at the Virgil this weekend! Does anyone think that helped? Hijacking a family’s grief to protest is not acceptable.

This is absolute rubbish

@HOkieCOkie

Protests are never peaceful, they nearly always get taken over ppl who want to cause a riot. They should be banned.

The violence at the Virgil this weekend! Does anyone think that helped? Hijacking a family’s grief to protest is not acceptable.

What rubbish. I am not a big protester but I turned up for the huge anti-brexit March. I think the estimation was that several million were there. Noisy at times but absolutely no trouble at all. In fact police praised us for our behaviour. The idea that I possibly couldn’t take part in something like that again fills me with horror.

@HOkieCOkie

Ok I'll play your silly game.

Let's give you an example to get this through to people with views like yours. Say something awful happened to you at the hands of the authorities. You find the same has happened to a few others. Nobody is helping you. You are left with nothing. You protest outside the office of that authority. You are arrested because you made a noise by chanting a slogan and the employees were getting distracted by watching you from the window.
Think this couldn't happen to you? That may be so but then you've just revealed what an 'I'm alright jack', 'don't give a shit about others' person you are.

Protests are never peaceful, they nearly always get taken over ppl who want to cause a riot. They should be banned.
This is a dangerous, dangerous thing to wish for.

@IntermittentParps

Protests are never peaceful, they nearly always get taken over ppl who want to cause a riot. They should be banned. This is a dangerous, dangerous thing to wish for.

Protests are not the way to go.

The way to enact change is at the ballot box.

Oh user, such naivety.

Protests are not the way to go.

The way to enact change is at the ballot box.

In an ideal world protests would not be necessary - however we don't live in an ideal world, we live in the one where we get a chance to vote for a new government every five years and if that government has a majority they can then enact whatever laws they like in that interim period.

And that is why we need to be allowed to protest - particularly this government who is responsible for some spectacularly bad laws, mishandling of the pandemic, cronyism costing the tax payer billions and has broken the law themselves several times.

Democracy doesn't pack itself up into a box after an election and wait for the next one. It is an ongoing conversation.

Protest is a part of that conversation, it is how people make their voices heard when there is no election - in large numbers to show strength of feeling, in public to raise awareness, it is a cornerstone of democracy itself. Anyone who doesn't understand that clearly doesn't understand the first thing about democracy.

I'm not sure how they are going to enforce all these new laws. Policing in the country is generally by consent. The police force has been defunded for years. The court system has been defunded for years.

But then this government is hard of thinking generally. I suspect they are shit scared. Once lockdown is over and the economic cost of the pandemic plus Brexit begins to bite, mass unemployment tends to concentrate peoples minds. So this legislation is being rushed through under cover of bringing protest laws up to date. I would say pound shop fascists but I like pound shops.

Oh user, such naivety.

There's exceptions but protests don't really achieve anything. Over a million people marched against the Iraq war in London.

Professional protesters like Piers Corbyn or David Icke never actually get anywhere.

People always talk about the importance of the 'grey vote' in winning elections or referendums.They're not protesting every week, but they do vote.

@Icantreachthepretzels

Protests are not the way to go.

The way to enact change is at the ballot box.

In an ideal world protests would not be necessary - however we don't live in an ideal world, we live in the one where we get a chance to vote for a new government every five years and if that government has a majority they can then enact whatever laws they like in that interim period.

And that is why we need to be allowed to protest - particularly this government who is responsible for some spectacularly bad laws, mishandling of the pandemic, cronyism costing the tax payer billions and has broken the law themselves several times.

Democracy doesn't pack itself up into a box after an election and wait for the next one. It is an ongoing conversation.

Protest is a part of that conversation, it is how people make their voices heard when there is no election - in large numbers to show strength of feeling, in public to raise awareness, it is a cornerstone of democracy itself. Anyone who doesn't understand that clearly doesn't understand the first thing about democracy.

Forms of protest, yes, but in a digital word it can be done online. Petitions, email your MP, or write to your MP etc.

Pressure can be put on democratically that way. Street protests are unedifying and futile IMO.

Forms of protest, yes, but in a digital word it can be done online. Petitions, email your MP, or write to your MP etc.

Yes writing to your MP is important - I will be writing to mine later, I write to him a lot. And on line petitions are good too ... but they don't compare to the real thing.

They are far too easily ignored.

It is our right to protest, in person, in great numbers - any one advocating for the removal of a right needs to take a good, hard look at why they think people will be better off with one less right. Because the right to sign an online petition on a none government website does not compensate for the loss of the right to go right into the heart of government and make yourself heard - to have those scenes broadcast across every news programme.

You could of course sign a petition on the government website - the only problem with that is, who decides whether or not to accept and publish the petition for signatures? ... oh yeah - the government.

Online petitions are pretty fucking useless when you've got an authoritarian government who doesn't even uphold the law itself. What scares them is people on the streets. That's why they want to stop it.

@flashbac I’m not playing silly games. I’m giving an opinion honestly so hostile and rude. Wind your neck in. You don’t agree that’s fine lol