To think the porn culture has a lot to do with societal misogyny?

[Imsosorryalan75]

And due to the millions of pounds made from this industry, it won't be curbed or restricted by the powers that be? It seems blatantly obvious to me that young teenage boys/men/deviants viewing readily available and mostly violent porn promotes objectifying and disrespect for women.

You're absolutely right, OP. The internet has changed everything. I was thinking along the lines of licensing but that would only apply to the film industry and is useless against individuals uploading their own content, which is all too easy.

I loathe the whole business. I think the only way is education - both of boys and respect and bolstering our girls in terms, of confidence and what not to accept.

It isnt just about the law (although certainly that should be a part of it. Maybe very very strong fines for porn sites found hosting videos of rape etc - Pornhub was apparently unable to do anything about these videos until credit cards removed their services. So hitting their pockets is likely the only thing that would work).

But there are also a wide range of things that are not illegal, but are widely seen as bad things. Eg - it is not illegal to be rude or condescending to waiting staff (I used to be a waitress and god knows the prisons would be full). But if someone you are on a date with is rude and condescending in a restaurant then its widely accepted as a Bad Sign. Likewise, if someone admits that they find the idea of women being chocked/punched/spat on a turn on then that might not be illegal (we cant police peoples heads) but it absolutely should be seen as a red flag and not "kink shaming".

Oh - and stop the weird channels on free view that show like Rabbit or bunny or whatever. I know it’s after the watershed, but I don’t think it should be on the airwaves.

[quote LadyfromtheBelleEpoque]@tormentil

Another thing to consider is that there is a segment of the population that is very, very interested in destabilising society. The widespread availability of porn is doing just this. From this perspective, it can be seen to be less about money and far more about creating chaos.

Who or which group do you think it is? I am curious as I think we all sense the change but don’t know what or who is driving it.[/quote]
Is the idea that it's better that some sicko is releasing urges through porn than in the real world?

There's clearly flaws in that but if you take away the porn, you're not taking away the urge. Men still have the same drives and hormones.

I really don't know how much it has to do with societal misogyny, but it's surely no help. One of my best friends works in the police force, following in the footsteps of her dad who was also a DSI. She has a strong belief that porn has a direct impact on sexual assault (not the overall numbers, but what happens in them). In the 60s/70s women were raped of course, but today the cases she is involved with almost always involve vaginal, anal and oral. These are clearly 'inspired' by what is seen in porn. She uses the term rape++.

I've always meant to read some books (I've seen a few references and reviews) on the porn industry, but never had the time. I've looked porn from time to time (mostly lesbian...don't ask why!) and the amount of it, and the amount of participants in staggering. It must be a huge industry.

To make her point, my friend often references Winnie M Li www.winniemli.com/

I've not read her book (it's on the backlog), but she was raped by a teenager in Ireland, and the rapist had a porn playbook, i.e., directly replaying what he had seen. I know it's easy to say it just one case, by I don't think it is.

I would suggest that for those that cannot control the urges they have, they have programmes to reduce urges including testosterone lowering. Just like alcohol and drug programs.

I accept that the urges exist, but when it results in harm to other people, people should have restrictions placed upon them.

Personally I think porn probably fuels the urges for some people - they start off with ‘tamer’ stuff and get more extreme. Pp made a comparison to terrorism videos encouraging extremism. But I’m not sure we will practically be able to block porn - as too many people would object. I guess making porn companies responsible for the content that they host may be a start - ie - not allowing something until it has been verified that it was not made in exploitative way and the content is not extreme.

@Gerla

Literature does not have such a strong effect and also doesn't involve abusing real people. Completely different kettle of fish!

I think they call it priming.

[quote LadyfromtheBelleEpoque]@tormentil

Another thing to consider is that there is a segment of the population that is very, very interested in destabilising society. The widespread availability of porn is doing just this. From this perspective, it can be seen to be less about money and far more about creating chaos.

Who or which group do you think it is? I am curious as I think we all sense the change but don’t know what or who is driving it.[/quote]
Whoever, or whatever, was behind Jimmy Saville - and all the others.

Realistically, unless you take an approach like China, I can't see internet restrictions being imposed in the west.

People have to be so careful as a result. With ease of recording, and ease of distribution, there is also a risk of private material being made public which can never be made private again. My niece was victim of this a few years ago. She had made a very explicit video of herself (solo, had not included her face luckily), and her phone was unlocked/hacked by "friends" in her sports team, and it was uploaded to well known porn site and copied everywhere from there. Bottom line is that this is impossible to regulate.

notbuyingit.org.uk/take-action-prostitution-2/

www.traffickinghubpetition.com

@emmyc2924

www.traffickinghubpetition.com

Thanks for sharing

The harmful effects of porn have been minimised by the idea of personal choice.

The majority of W&G suffer because there is a minority of women who buy into this shit because porn affects women and girls who don’t watch it. How can it not?

YANBU

Survey comepleted @Sicario
Thank you for posting that. I am going to make a fresh post with that link as I had no idea of its existance

I am really struggling with the women who use this stuff in pop videos - Miles Cyrus in NBLAH for example with her buttocks direct to camera. It is innocent and fun of course as an act and always can be but in light of male aggression against women cannot be seen as part of normalising pornagraphic culture. There is a woman in New York who made a music video (beautiful woman, some artfully done stuff) but at one point the camera is behind her, buttocks showing as she bobs her head up and down between a man s crotch. How is this not meant to be explicit? I get that she sees this as avantgarde/satire/parody /a social comment in response to society but like Lady Gaga ‘s videos, they have used porn culture as a vehicle to get them where they want to be.

I just cannot make sense of it - these seem intelligent enough women who are trying to define their role in a very narrow way without recognising that they have voluntarily brought the underground into the mainstream into the very streams that ordinary people need to not be sexualised as we go about our business (keep it where there is choice, surely?)

cannot be seen as part of normalising pornagraphic culture

Should say

cannot be anything other than normalising pornagraphic culture

And I do not know what is happening to my spelling

On a slightly different note, I have a social media account with what sounds like a male name and am inundated with nudes from women. If this is what men experience normally (I had no idea) then it cannot do anything other than skewer perceptions. I am truly shocked at the extent of it. Even on record sites on Instagram you can see images of vinyl artfully posed on bare legs, tiny shorts just slightly revealing - it’s titillation but the presence of it everywhere is exhausting, to me.

Yes, although I suspect societal misogyny has been around a lot longer than porn

This.

I completely agree OP. It's everywhere and exhausting. And it's not just having negative effects in areas of violence and misogyny, but on long term relationships, it's proven more and more that porn addiction adjusts brain patterns and men increasingly cannot find satisfaction in 'normal' sex with their partner, so they seek out more porn and it perpetuates the cycle. And women are degraded further, the women involved in porn but also the women who suffer because of their partner's addiction. It's very worrying as the mother of a teenage boy. He's clued in and says he despises the whole culture of it and agrees with me about exploitation but also says he's under constant bombardment with links from friends and on YouTube etc.

I've also noticed the porn apologism here on MN, the normalising and the minimising and the cool girl syndrome. It's really worrying and I feel like people are blinded to the truth of it in their wish to be seen as independent and empowered. They are also insistent all men watch porn and if we express certainty that our partner doesn't we are naive. And it's because they are so steeped in the culture of it they don't believe there are people who aren't. Neither my dh or I watch it because it is exploitative and misogynistic and because we value our own relationship over it. Possibly old fashioned, but we would both see viewing porn as unfaithful. You can't say such things on those threads though.

Whoever said it's repacking exploration as empowerment - spot on.

But what can we do?

*repackaging exploitation

A so-called passport where you have to register details and proof you are over 18 would be a start. There was a plan which I think was abandoned or postponed. Yes some under 18s would probably log on as adults but I expect the average man having to acknowledge and register porn watching would reduce the number who watch it by a vast amount.

You don't have to read far on this website about pupil on pupil sexual assault to realise that the boys have got their notions on how to do sex from internet porn.

www.everyonesinvited.uk/read-testimonies-page-9