To find snobbery around vocabulary very silly?

[crayolacom]

I too don't particularly like the idea of regional dialects and differences disappearing, but language does change and everyone should just deal with it!

I wonder if Shakespeare would be moaning about the modern lexicon if he was alive!

There are some errors that compromise meaning'. Yes, indeed, like 'pry' when 'prise' is meant.

Even vocabulary errors that could potentially compromise meaning rarely do, because the context almost always makes it clear what is meant, especially since the similarity in the sounds of the confused words makes it easy to guess which word was meant. I'm not sure there are many sentences where the substitution of 'pry' for 'prise', or vice versa, would prevent comprehension.

It's not uncommon for people on MN to claim that they are totally incapable of understanding a post because of the poster's poor grammar or lack of punctuation or paragraphs. I think that in the vast majority of cases it's simply a way of putting the OP down or demonstrating their own superiority. In the rare cases it might be true, it's probably down to poor comprehension skills on the part of the reader.

@Countrygirl2021

Some things are just awful. "Of" instead of "have"

"Tryna" is a new one to have started to see.

I also hate fake words like "staycation"

I hate staycation too, but mainly because it's been transformed into a word that holiday snobs use to mean they're not going abroad.

IMO, if I live in Liverpool (which I do) and I have two weeks in Cornwall in the summer, that's my summer holiday, it's not a 'staycation'.

When I was a teenager, that word had just started to appear in women's magazines, and it was aimed at people who couldn't afford to take the kids away on holiday - so a staycation was suggested instead. This didn't mean staying in the country (which obviously still costs money!) but rather staying in your home, and making a 'holiday' out of it by doing activities that you wouldn't usually do, going on days out, making the most of your local area.

But snobs have stolen the word as they believe that a holiday isn't a holiday unless they leave the country.

Therefore, it annoys me now.

There are subtle differences in all accents. I can tell the difference between a Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ashington accent for example but most people from outside these areas just hears a generic Geordie accent (much to the annoyance of the Makems). I appreciate it will be the same in other areas. My friend from Manchester for example can distinguish which area people are from by their accent whereas I just hear generic Mancunian. I think that’s why the ignorant people who just hear a ‘northern accent’ piss me off so much, there is no such thing just as there is no such thing as a generic Southern accent. They also tend to be the anally retentive superior ones who graciously tolerate our northern existence.

Mum can tell which side of the river someone is from within Sunderland by accent.

I bloody love linguistic diversity and linguistic change and the differences in accent and dialects around - but I find speech and language utterly fascinating and find the IPA chart a thing of absolute beauty. It's fucking killing me at the moment trying to do very detailed phonetic transcription with one ear clogged with earwax.

I am good on the accents I grew up with and near to.

Yes you can hear the difference from just a few miles away.

I can accept that language changes, and I find regional differences quite interesting, what I can't stand are things that are just wrong e.g bought instead of brought, and vice versa. That's just wrong, and I see it on here all the time. I can't really talk about spag though because I'm dyslexic and really quite shit at getting things right and spotting my mistakes.

It's important to be able to use Standard English in appropriate contexts and not doing so does disadvantage people, but I find the endless threads on here full of people mocking dialects and accents to be tiresome.

So true.

I use standard English when I'm teaching and I always point out 'misuse' in terms of, "Yes that's right but when you are writing in your GCSE exam..."

Part of me feels bad about it because sometimes it's a cultural thing, on the other hand I want students to have the skills to pass exams.

Teaching the HSC communication module can be fun because then people can express themselves, one of my exercises is to give students a bit of Shakespeare to rewrite for different audiences.

Also people using words like 'myself' and 'gifted'

Attempts to sound more formal or posh?

The language snobbery I've mostly experienced (as someone with RP accent & very wide vocabulary) is mockery from those with rather less grasp of the breadth of this wonderful language we have.

The fact that I'm interested in finding the right words, combined with my accent, seems to make me fair game for some people.

I put that down to their insecurities, but mild abuse just for the way I speak, is unpleasant. And irritating.

Why is it always the northern accents that are vilified? Everyone has an accent yet some consider their's superior to others. Even those trained in RP have an accent? Live and let live, it's our difference that make us interesting.

@CoffeeWithCheese

There are subtle differences in all accents. I can tell the difference between a Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ashington accent for example but most people from outside these areas just hears a generic Geordie accent (much to the annoyance of the Makems). I appreciate it will be the same in other areas. My friend from Manchester for example can distinguish which area people are from by their accent whereas I just hear generic Mancunian. I think that’s why the ignorant people who just hear a ‘northern accent’ piss me off so much, there is no such thing just as there is no such thing as a generic Southern accent. They also tend to be the anally retentive superior ones who graciously tolerate our northern existence.

Mum can tell which side of the river someone is from within Sunderland by accent.

I bloody love linguistic diversity and linguistic change and the differences in accent and dialects around - but I find speech and language utterly fascinating and find the IPA chart a thing of absolute beauty. It's fucking killing me at the moment trying to do very detailed phonetic transcription with one ear clogged with earwax.

I had relatives in Salford and Manchester, maybe two or three miles apart, and their accents were quite different.

There’s dialect and then there’s just being wrong. I have no time for the latter. It’s simply down to a lack of reading.

I love hearing regional accents, dialects and idioms, and IMO they shouldn’t be suppressed. I’m not so keen on seeing bad grammar written down, but this stems from my background in copywriting, editing and proof reading.

I’m in Yorkshire, and a lot of people I work with say “we was, you was”, which is fine in conversation, but looks terribly unprofessional in professional written communications.

Then, you get people who get words like borrow and lend, teach and learn and brought and bought mixed up, or using of instead of have, or I instead of me, and I admit that I secretly judge, but would never be rude enough to point it out.

I’m from London, but live in South Yorkshire, and DH is a Geordie with a generic “northern” accent. When DD went to high school, she was teased for not having a strong local accent because neither of us speak with the local accent. Round here people greet each other with “ey oop”. I love it as it sounds so friendly.

(Secretly hoping that my post has no grammar and spelling errors )

@imyournextdoorneighbour

I am tolerant about regional accents but some things seriously wind me up, the worst one being the letter H. It is 'aitch' it is in the dictionary as 'aitch' so why tf do people say 'haitch'? No one says 'feff' for 'eff' or 'lel' for 'el'. So WHY haitch.

I agree. I can't think of anything that annoys me.

Well, southerners with estuary accents who believe they have no accent. That is funny, but it doesn't annoy me.

Oh, you do get annoyed?!

The h thing is a logical mistake. So I don't know why that would annoy anybody.

“Need gone” which is ubiquitous in Facebook selling posts always makes me wince.

@UntamedWisteria

I didn't used to like watching Netflix, but I find it's become a lifeline during the pandemic.

Is that grammatically incorrect? What should it be instead?

I'm confused now!

I didn't used to....

That doesn't sound wrong to me either.

But if it sounds wrong to some, I'd be curious, how would they express it?

@UntamedWisteria

I didn't used to like watching Netflix, but I find it's become a lifeline during the pandemic.

Is that grammatically incorrect? What should it be instead?

I'm confused now!

I didn’t USE to like watching...

@Number3BigCupOfTea

Oh, you do get annoyed?!

The h thing is a logical mistake. So I don't know why that would annoy anybody.

It’s not a mistake.

I hate people correcting others on their pronunciation. "Don't you mean ....." well you clearly knew what I meant so why be a pretentious twat.
Especially when it's a regional thing, bloody hate being "corrected" by southerners for a northern pronunciation.

It's really incredibly rude and if you catch yourself correcting any adults pronunciation then give yourself a slap from me.

Simon, I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent with the history of words.

The correct U.K. spelling of aitch is aitch. It is not like dropping the h from herb.

It is of course fine for there to be different Irish and English pronunciations of aitch, and different American and English pronunciations of herb.

@CthulhuChristmas

Those of you upset about the letter h, it's an Irish sectarian shibboleth. Protestants say aitch and Catholics say haitch.

You can see why, historically, English people would have dismissed the Irish Catholic pronunciation as being somehow wrong or bad, but there's no excuse for it now.

Is this true? I am C of I and went to a private school (protestant) in Dublin and we all said haitch as well.

I do feel the lack of logic in the automatic assumption that any Irish way of pronouncing something is just wrong even though hibernian english is very close to British English, it seems there is no deviation allowed at all! it's on an irritating mistake!? But Americans have changed so much and that's accepted as American English.

But sure look, it's interesting. I would have loved to have studied linguistics and accents.

It is tricky because sometimes people get annoyed if you don’t correct them and they later make a fool of themselves in front of someone more important.

Like my friend who kept pronouncing her I.T. Course as an it course and was enraged that I hadn’t told her it was pronounced eye tea.

@Firstbellini

Simon, I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent with the history of words.

The correct U.K. spelling of aitch is aitch. It is not like dropping the h from herb.

It is of course fine for there to be different Irish and English pronunciations of aitch, and different American and English pronunciations of herb.

Why is it not like dropping an h from herb?

Why is one acceptable and the other not?

Tbf I think Simon's history of "h" is relevant here. Aitch may well be the current acceptable spelling, but back in the day, it may well have been different, particularly in some parts of the country.

@Firstbellini

It is tricky because sometimes people get annoyed if you don’t correct them and they later make a fool of themselves in front of someone more important.

Like my friend who kept pronouncing her I.T. Course as an it course and was enraged that I hadn’t told her it was pronounced eye tea.

This is tricky. There is a cleaner at my work and she has made it clear she wants her English corrected. I try to wait to the end of the sentence, nod nod nod and then make the correction! But it's embarrassing because it's like you haven't listened and don't care what the person said.