To love the word outwith

[en0la]

I think it's a great word which is grossly underused outside its native Scotland.

In fact I could say I've gotten rather fond of it.

Not at all, Mithering! Vielen Dank.

I hoping my German grandmother isn’t turning in her grave at my not just rusty, but positively corroded, German.

Op, me too. Very Scottish

“Slight digression, but also a big fan of plural forms of 'you' (youse, y'all etc) and wish they weren't surrounded with such snobbery by 'standard' British English speakers.”

Yep... in the same week at uni, I was criticised for using yous with pupils in teaching practice as its slang and also told in a linguistics lecture that it’s perfectly correct Scots and not slang at all!

A plural you is just so useful and you all makes me feel like I’m trying to do a bad American impression.

I use outwith all the time and it was only recently I discovered it was a Scottish word (Scot born and living in Scotland). I use, “the back of” all the time too, I take it to mean anything between the hour and 20 past?, see you at the pub at the back of 5 means not spot on 5 but I won’t be as late as half past?.

@MitheringSunday

That's excellent! I might even nick that and use yester in my books as a pejorative for old fashioned or conservative.

He's very yester in his views... As you might forgive a man of his years.

Thanks. I'll make sure I credit you when my immortal novels are published.

Does it not just mean outside?

Outside the rules. Outside office hours. Outside the garden wall.

Is there a use of outwith that couldn't be outside instead? Genuine question - I've only ever seen/heard it on Mumsnet.

Nothing like gotten! It's a very real word in Scotland

Gotten is also a very real word, used both within and outwith Scotland. What makes you think it's nothing like gotten?

I don't understand 'the back of' at all! Surely ten past 5 is the front of the hour not the back, as the front comes first?! (if we accept hours have fronts and backs, which is not a concept I've ever encounterd before! )

Of course the back of is after five. If you have seen the back of something, it means that something has gone. Five has gone, so it's the back of five!

[quote thecatsthecats]@MitheringSunday

That's excellent! I might even nick that and use yester in my books as a pejorative for old fashioned or conservative.

He's very yester in his views... As you might forgive a man of his years.

Thanks. I'll make sure I credit you when my immortal novels are published.[/quote]

@WeatherwaxLives

Does it not just mean outside?

Outside the rules. Outside office hours. Outside the garden wall.

Is there a use of outwith that couldn't be outside instead? Genuine question - I've only ever seen/heard it on Mumsnet.

No... it’s outside of... but better.

So you’d probably not use it for for rules there... I’d not use outside either though. Outside office hours isn’t a phrase, is it? There’s words missing if you use outside? And you’d not use outwith for garden walls.

It’s formal usually - outwith office hours I can be contacted on... that’s outwith the powers of, or outwith the scope of, or outwith the agreement. You could usually swap it for outside of, but it’s a better word.

Why use extra words if you don’t have to?

A lot of Scots words do that actually, use one word where standard English uses more.

@PrelovedWithValue

Of course the back of is after five. If you have seen the back of something, it means that something has gone. Five has gone, so it's the back of five!

Nah, I think that's where we disagree - I wouldn't think 5 had fully gone until 6pm!

You don't think it's after five until it's six o clock?

They clearly teach time differently where you are!

Outside office hours isn’t a phrase, is it?

It absolutely is, it's on mine and all my colleagues answerphone messages.

'outside office hours, if your enquiry is urgent, please redial xxxxxx.'

Never heard of outwith before. I love forthwith though.

@PrelovedWithValue

You don't think it's after five until it's six o clock?

They clearly teach time differently where you are!

Clearly!

I'd say 5.30 is within the hour of 5. Certainly isn't within the hour of 6!

Back of to me is anything after the hour until half past.

So back of 5 is anything between 5.01 and 530.

@Rillington

It's an unnecessary word. I don't get 'wee' being inserted in every sentence either.

It's a very necessary word. Others don't quite mean the same

As for wee, I would use that as a direct replacement for little. Not in every sentence

But the fifth hour of the day ends at 5, it doesn't start at 5...

I’ve only heard of it on here and I probably wouldn’t incorporate it into my vocabulary.

I like outwith. I'm not Scottish. I find it very handy for talking in a scientific context when data doesn't sit inside the bounds, for example.
I don't like gotten though; it 'feels' horrible to say! Clacky, somehow. Eg it's gotten cold outside would be expressed more nicely as 'become colder...'.

Are you me?

I play a stupid game and try to include it in every formal document I like for my large corporate (English) employer.

Occasionally someone edits it out but if I have final document sigh off I put it back in. I know of one other Scot in another dept who does the same. We message each other when we find the word in documents.

Pretty childish but it makes me happy!

I suppose it does, I'd never really thought about it that way. But back of still doesn't make sense to me even then. Surely just after 5 is the front of 6 in that case?

Honestly, if someone said what time is back of 5 and I had to guess, I'd guess 5.45 to 6pm. But now I'd know!

If it's any explanation, I am as far from Scotland as you can get on the mainland, though, if it's a Scottish phrase?

I use back of when making flexible arrangements to meet.

I will pick you up at the back of 7.

I will meet you in the pub at the back of 7

The person knows I will arrive sometime after 7 but likely before 730.