To love the word outwith

[en0la]

I think it's a great word which is grossly underused outside its native Scotland.

In fact I could say I've gotten rather fond of it.

[quote WineInTheWillows]@Veterinari So I'm now anti-Scottish because I don't particularly enjoy one of the words used in that country?

Synonyms are used for a number of reasons. There are shades of meaning, but also they're used to avoid repetition of the same adjective, e.g. 'The park was amazing and I had an amazing time on the amazingly tall slide.'[/quote]
No I didn't say you were anti Scottish I just asked a question. Which you didn't answer. Choosing instead to lecture me on the role of synonyms (which I didn't ask about and am entirely aware of).

I was simply wondering whether you objected to synonyms generally or this one specifically since you said your dislike of it was that it was unnecessary. And yet it is retained in common use across Scotland and specific legal use in England so it clearly plays a functional role in our language

Big thumbs up from me, use it a lot. Not pompous at all.

Exactly. The opposite of within. Within / outwith. Used in similar formal or poetic contexts as within.

So if you want to get rid of outwith then you should also be happy to get rid of within.

No I didn't say you were anti Scottish confused I just asked a question. Which you didn't answer. Choosing instead to lecture me on the role of synonyms (which I didn't ask about and am entirely aware of).

You asked if I object to the word because it's Scottish (implying that I must be anti-Scottish) or if I object to synonyms (which I answered implicitly, but if you require a more explicit answer, no, I don't object to synonyms).

I was simply wondering whether you objected to synonyms generally or this one specifically since you said your dislike of it was that it was unnecessary. And yet it is retained in common use across Scotland and specific legal use in England so it clearly plays a functional role in our language

I didn't say I dislike it. I said I'm not a fan of it- I'm not going to agree with OP that we should increase its usage in England and non-Scottish countries. Because I don't see the utility of it outside the realms in which it is already used. However, I'm also not vehemently anti-outwith. It's a word, I'm honestly not that fussed. OP says she loves it, my response is, 'Meh, not a fan'.

Looks like you're spoiling for a disagreement here tbh and it's all a bit much at 7 a.m. on a Saturday.

It is a synonym for outside but you wouldn't say 'put the bins outwith'. Just out and they would be outside of the house. You could say that someone has gone outwith the local area. Or something is outwith the remit of an organisation. It's outwith my usual experience. I use it routinely.

I haven’t got an ounce of Scottish blood but it’s a word I use.

@WineInTheWillows

No I didn't say you were anti Scottish confused I just asked a question. Which you didn't answer. Choosing instead to lecture me on the role of synonyms (which I didn't ask about and am entirely aware of).

You asked if I object to the word because it's Scottish (implying that I must be anti-Scottish) or if I object to synonyms (which I answered implicitly, but if you require a more explicit answer, no, I don't object to synonyms).

I was simply wondering whether you objected to synonyms generally or this one specifically since you said your dislike of it was that it was unnecessary. And yet it is retained in common use across Scotland and specific legal use in England so it clearly plays a functional role in our language

I didn't say I dislike it. I said I'm not a fan of it- I'm not going to agree with OP that we should increase its usage in England and non-Scottish countries. Because I don't see the utility of it outside the realms in which it is already used. However, I'm also not vehemently anti-outwith. It's a word, I'm honestly not that fussed. OP says she loves it, my response is, 'Meh, not a fan'.

Looks like you're spoiling for a disagreement here tbh and it's all a bit much at 7 a.m. on a Saturday.

I actually didn't say that. In all of my posts I've acknowledged that it is already in use in English so if you choose to take that as an accusation of being anti-Scottish that's up to you, but it's not what I said.

So what is your objection to it then? I have to admit I'm a bit baffled that someone would object to the useage of perfectly useful and unobjectionable word. As a pp has suggested, do you feel the same about 'within'?

If it weren't for mumsnet, I'd have no idea that outwith is outwith the norm. It's basic vocabulary. Not particularly formal and definitely not pompous. (I'm Scottish but lived all over the UK and also abroad and this has never come to my attention outwith this site!)

Do not contact the teachers outwith school hours

Sorry, can't help, that's outwith the scope of my role

Outwith the Royal Family, no one is really interested in Harry and Meghan

It's an unnecessary word. I don't get 'wee' being inserted in every sentence either.

@Sola123

Exactly. The opposite of within. Within / outwith. Used in similar formal or poetic contexts as within.

Ahh, see not only am I fond of outwith, I also like using without for a physical location.

Outwith the terms of the contract.
Without the walls of the city.

It’s outside of really, rather than just outside... it’s from Middle English, without used to mean the same thing.

There are quite a few words in Scots that replace words that changed or were lost in English, because they’re useful, like a plural you.

Me too OP. Lovely word.
I’m just thinking that ‘without’ sometimes used to mean the same. There’s an Easter hymn that goes, ‘There is a green hill far away, without a city wall....’

As a child who sang hymns every day at school, I used to think it meant that the green hill didn’t have a city wall, and even then it didn’t make sense for a hill to have a city wall. But it only dawned on me ages later that it must mean, ‘outside a city wall’.

I use it all the time, sometimes its the perfect word to explain exactly what I’m meaning.

Look @Veterinari, responding to you is getting really tedious, so I'm going to stop now. Think what you like but I cannot be bothered.

@Rillington I really like wee! I don't know why, I think it adds a layer of meaning depending on how it's used. Like, if you'll have a wee dram, there's an air of, 'Oh, go on then/I'll just have a small one,' but in, 'poor wee scone', it's emotive- aww, they're only little.

Well I agree with out with the royal family anyway.

I support everybody’s right to use this word but tbh I’m not surprised it hasn’t caught on and “outside” is the default word elsewhere in the world.

I’m now imagining George Michael in his cop uniform singing: “ Let’s go outwith...”

I've never heard of outwith but I like the sound of it!
Can I nominate overmorrow as a wonderful and useful word? It means the day after tomorrow

Overmorrow - I vaguely think I have heard it before, but now I really want to start using it. It would have been a great title for an awful movie 😁
Outwith is a regular part of my vocabulary, as is whilst. But I am Scottish.

Outwith the realms of possibility

My favourite Scots phrase is “through the house”. Where’s DD? Oh, she’s through the house.

English DH also doesn’t know what I mean by “back of 5”. What time is it? Back of 5. Used only when the time isn’t urgent - like I wouldn’t say “oh shit, it’s back of 9, the kids are late for school!”

Overmorrow is brilliant. I have set myself a challenge to use it in conversation today.

I use both with more as ‘beyond’ and ‘outside of’. And the ‘beyond’ casts a strong look back at the boundary excluding it. It’s a declination and distinction word. useful in interpreting and is cussing statutory provisions like ‘other than’ ‘except for’. The very word looks both at the excluded and the included.

Delineation not declination.

Very useful over the past year:
"Outwith the rules..."
"Outwith your local area..."