To think this is too much?

[Geeitsfriday]

Do you think an alternate of calpol and nurofen every day every 4 hours for months is too much? I'm starting to worry about a friends baby. I wouldn't dare say anything as she is a great mother and loves her DD very much. But knowing she uses it when they get whiney 'in case they're in pain' is troubling to me as it could be a number of things, tiredness included. I know she thinks she's doing the right thing but I'm not so sure. What's everyone else's opinion on this much pain relief every day? Surely the liver is going to be impacted long term?

When you say small baby, how small? Is the baby old enough for what she’s giving?

I always gave my DCs pain meds for teething even told others to mind their own business when told I shouldn’t but certainly not every day and not the max dosage every day too. There are plenty of other things she can do. When my 1st was teething we lived in a country where the bonjella worked as the infant one was the same as the UKs adult one. When we moved back to the uk I carried on using the adult one for my other DCs. Also ambersol worked great and teething crystals are a god send.

The baby will build up a tolerance to them and the meds will start having the effect they should if she’s doing it every day.

Maybe buy her some teething crystals and ambersol as a gift saying you’ve heard these work better than calpol and ibuprofen because they target the right area.... see if she starts using them instead.

I think for the baby’s sake you need to direct, honest, and explicit. Any softening of the message will possibly mean it is ignored.
Say you are very very concerned about the amount and duration of mediation she is giving the child. She needs to see her GP very urgently so the baby can be checked over for any damage that may have been caused. She needs to stop immediately and seek expert help for herself and the baby.

It clearly says on the packets not to give for more than a few days without consulting a doctor. My cat has issues and my vet is trying to avoid giving him long term nurifen for cats so goodness knows what its doing to that poor child's organs. I would call your own doctor and discuss with them as they would know the proper channels.

Yes.

Paracetamol is a hepatic drug. This mean it impacts the liver. A lot of people get drunk and neck two paracetamol at the end of the night to get rid of a hangover. This is a very bad idea. As both alcohol and paracetamol affect the liver cells. So yes. Paracetamol is actually one of the most harmful drugs over long periods.

Now ibuprofen. In an adult. This isn’t too bad as a drug. As in it won’t hur that liver. But it will damage the stomach. It can also damage the kidneys

But in a child. Yes. It’s damaging. I’d even push that someone should look at that baby. She’s using calpol as a just in case. If the baby cries. Not good

I think you could start with 111. It does sound very worrying. If it's every day for two or three days I think that's fine. Depends on what type of person she is as to whether I'd try a direct approach to her. If she was a lot younger than me I might. If not I probably wouldn't. Good idea to say what does the GP think. Or why not ask the GP for alternative medication.

You're not allowed to use baby Nurofen or Calpol for more than three consecutive days.

If I felt like my child was so unwell that he needed to be dosed up every 4 hours for three whole days I'd be heading to A&E or the GP at least.

It is very, very wrong that she is doing this.

What’s 111 going to do?! Seriously?

You need to speak to her and explain the dangers. I don’t care how sensitive she is. This is damaging the baby.

I remember an actress saying on TV that she sometimes gave her child calpol at night to settle them. SS went to visit and educate her.

So now you’re backtracking and saying she just needs educating. No she doesn’t. She’s drugging her child and that is serious. It is child abuse.

Stop defending her and get and report her for goodness sake. Look at it another way. If this child ends up dying and you’ve known that this has been going on and all you’ve done is advise her not to, how are you going to feel. You know it’s happening and you have a moral duty now to do something about it. This baby can’t ask for help itself can it.

Very damaging, the liver and stomach effects as pointed out but also the rebound headache effect. using pain relief too often means that when you stop it you get a "rebound headache" - this could be why the child is crying a lot - it has become in effect "addicted" to pain killers.

Do you really reliably know that the medicine is being given so frequently? If so, I agree w PPs that this is an immediate safeguarding issue that needs social services' immediate involvement.

Yes, definitely too much medication, and very damaging for a baby. Does she have a Mother,or other family member who is aware of all this, and can giver her some advice.

Worrying OP, not to repeat all of the advice above I think all agree! I hope you manage to get help for her and the baby.

Reminds me of friends of my DH through work, years ago, who stayed over one weekend with their DC. Turns out DC had ‘pink milk ‘( milk and calpol mixed) before bed every night. I was young, no kids at the time and didn’t really understand. They did though. My DH having visited their home, confirmed it was every night.

This was something we were trained to spot when working in the pharmacy. Maybe call up a pharmacy and ask for some advice from the pharmacist? At least then you will get an answer about how damaging it is from a professional. You don't even need to mention names.

It's very unlikely to be teething. Babies/small children who don't get enough sleep will whinge and cry, medication isn't the answer, a good sleep routine is! Also babies and kids cry. It's what they do. I don't know who you tell but it doesn't sound good at all.

Contact health visitor

I would simply advise her to see the GP as her dc is in constant pain. She doesn't seem to be intending to hurt the child. She needs help. But the dc might need it more.

Yikes I have only ever used calpol when teething or high temperatures!
Never ever used the other I felt it’s unsafe for small babies (my opinion) I know drs recommend it .
I hope you find a solution to your worries if it was my friend I would say something x

This is a child protection issue!

I've worked with children who have parents like this. She needs urgent intervention. It could become something as serious as munchausens by proxy.

I think that's extremely concerning - enough to report to SS to be honest. I'd be concerned about the child's organs, their tolerance levels and the habit it's setting up if not depedency issues.

I understand you feel bad and perhaps your friend does need educating, but how would if feel if the child became seriously ill through this or worse?

You've had quite a bit of advice on this thread OP but just to say I agree with other posters that you have a duty to report this now you know. Most other posters agree that a. painkillers shouldn't be being given this regularly and for such an extended time and it is worrying that the baby might have become dependent on these.

If you try to raise this with the mum yourself you may risk her becoming secretive in her behaviour and this could interfere with any independent investigations that need to be conducted once you report.
I would flag your concerns to both your local health visiting team (service in different areas is sporadic at the moment) as well as your local authorities social services department.
They will be able to ensure it is handled correctly to protect the child.

I would put this down as dangerous and contact SS.

Could you.not just say you know even beloved children are whiney at times but you have heard giving the Neurophen for more than 3 days at a time is bad for them. It could be harmful to them in long term. See what she says. You could say some thing like something you find your child whiney but found taking them out for a walk helped. Suggest she tries that got her child.

I'm not sure from your comments that she has actually said she is giving it every day....but you've assumed she is.

You say she said she was giving it regularly when child was ill, and that when you saw her again she was giving it. That is not the same as regularly giving it every day.

So think carefully, has she actually said she gives it every day and regularly across the day? Or is it that she's spoken about giving it, you've seen her giving it and assumed she does this EVERY day?

There's quite a difference here and it's worth thinking about what you actually know and don't know for sure.

Good friends talk to each other about tricky topics, even when it's hard. If you're worried you need to talk to your friend even if it doesn't go down that well. All you need to do is while chatting, say you just wondered how often she's giving the baby painkillers, as you'd noticed it the last couple of times you were with her. You can point out what the packaging says about how many days or doses can be given in a stretch without consulting the doctor and that giving more than that on a regular basis can be dangerous and ask if she was aware of that.....if she says it is very regular. Or you can ask if she's had medical advice to give it that regularly.

I would certainly speak to her first, especially if she has never categorically stated she gives painkillers every day to her child on an ongoing basis.

See how she responds.

Going straight to social services or some other organisation, especially if she has never actually said she gives them every day on an ongoing basis, but this is just your assumption based on the fact you've seen her give them several times, and she's mentioned one or two spells of ongoing use, would be jumping the gun and based on insufficient evidence.

Has she actually said she gives them every day on an ongoing basis?