Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

A curfew for men. What about male perpetrators of domestic violence, cooped up indoors with their poor families?

If a man is willing to break the law to harm someone, they’d be willing to break the law for a curfew.

A curfew wouldn’t protect anyone - it would just alienate and increase hostility.

I wouldn’t expect to have to abide by a curfew because some people in my same demographic committed crimes. I would find it atrocious.

While I don’t know what the answer is, restricting the freedoms of perfectly innocent people is not it. We’re all human beings trying to get on with our lives. Punish and make examples of people who are actually doing something wrong.

As a woman, going for a walk on your own is statically very safe. The probability of anything bad happening on your walk must be tiny.

As a student, I walked home frequently in the night / early hours of the morning, etc. Apart from a few cat calls, nothing bad ever happening to me.

As a few people here who know me in RL, I work in the legal profession for many years now. The impact of working on the cases I've been involved with means that I never walk alone it the night. I'm also careful about where I park my car. I always check for locked doors/windows at home, etc. I certainly don't feel fearful, but there are things I do that most women don't.

@Dutch1e

Another vote for curfew, each and every time, including policemen, until the blokes start reining in their own. Ffs, I'm middle-aged and Take Back The Night started when I was born. Every single man either knows and/or is rapist, a woman-beater, an aggressor. Let them handle it.

As the wife of a man and the mother of two men I really, really take exception to this sort of generalisation. The sort of man who carries out thesecrimes is in a tiny minority among the majority of loving and lovely men. I am 60 something and have spent my life walking alone to and from work and for pleasure. I am always aware of my surroundings and would not choose to walk home on my own through a park in the dark - maybe I should be able to do but "common sense" has been drummed into me from a young age. Maybe that is wrong but it is nothing new. I refuse to be suspicious of half of the population and hate to think that other woman might be being conditioned to do so.

Courts need to give out tougher sentences too. For all crimes.

@pantsville

A curfew for men. What about male perpetrators of domestic violence, cooped up indoors with their poor families?

If a man is willing to break the law to harm someone, they’d be willing to break the law for a curfew.

A curfew wouldn’t protect anyone - it would just alienate and increase hostility.

I wouldn’t expect to have to abide by a curfew because some people in my same demographic committed crimes. I would find it atrocious.

While I don’t know what the answer is, restricting the freedoms of perfectly innocent people is not it. We’re all human beings trying to get on with our lives. Punish and make examples of people who are actually doing something wrong.

Exactly. If women were expected to submit to a curfew because a tiny percentage of us were dangerous, we'd be rightly furious.

We don't do our sex any good by coming out with ridiculously illogical and unreasonable demands like this.

And yes, I said earlier, more women will die in domestic violence situations if there's a curfew for men.

Every single man either knows and/or is rapist, a woman-beater, an aggressor. Let them handle it.

Meaningless. Every single woman either knows and/or is rapist, a woman-beater or an aggressor too.

I can't believe the suggestion of a curfew is being taken seriously - it says half the population cannot be trusted . If we had substituted another group of people instead of men it would be held up discriminatory. Yes we have an issue of safety for everyone and increased surveillance, use of cctv and phone tracking would be a better way of reducing crimes,

@AjayChe

Every single man either knows and/or is rapist, a woman-beater, an aggressor. Let them handle it.

Meaningless. Every single woman either knows and/or is rapist, a woman-beater or an aggressor too.

Violence is overwhelmingly perpetuated by males. And yes although extreme violence is only carried out by a minority of males, many, many males act in an abusive way towards their partners and children. Look at the stats on how many girls and women are harrassed and abused, both by strangers and people they know. It is not a tiny minority of men, unfortunately.

I’d advise the police to be far more careful about who they employ before telling women to be more careful (like we’ve not heard that a million times before).

As the wife of a man and the mother of two men I really, really take exception to this sort of generalisation. The sort of man who carries out thesecrimes is in a tiny minority among the majority of loving and lovely men

Have you seen the sort of porn so many of these “lovely” men enjoy these days?

As the wife of a man and the mother of two men I really, really take exception to this sort of generalisation. The sort of man who carries out thesecrimes is in a tiny minority among the majority of loving and lovely men. I am 60 something and have spent my life walking alone to and from work and for pleasure. I am always aware of my surroundings and would not choose to walk home on my own through a park in the dark - maybe I should be able to do but "common sense" has been drummed into me from a young age. Maybe that is wrong but it is nothing new. I refuse to be suspicious of half of the population and hate to think that other woman might be being conditioned to do so.*

But you've just said that you can't walk in a park after dark lol.

@twelly

I can't believe the suggestion of a curfew is being taken seriously - it says half the population cannot be trusted . If we had substituted another group of people instead of men it would be held up discriminatory. Yes we have an issue of safety for everyone and increased surveillance, use of cctv and phone tracking would be a better way of reducing crimes,

Well it would reduce crime rates if they were locked up most of the time. Though of course, their female wives or children would then be the victims.

Stupid advice anyway, as it was likely someone the victim knew to have caught him and found her body so quickly.

Don't get to know men who are likely to murder you then, women

The mothers and wives of a lot of rapists and murderers also thought they were lovely and loving. Until they raped or murdered someone. Some carry on saying it even then despite all the evidence to the contrary.

There is no answer to this I’m afraid. There always will be a tiny minority of any population who commit awful crimes. Sadly it is a part of human society but fortunately very rare. I’m not sure how much blame can usefully be put on the male population as a whole for these exceptional outliers.
We should always be striving to educate everyone on respect for others and appropriate behaviour and should always call out those who catcall or intimidate etc. But, I don’t think any amount of education or societal pressure would stamp out this sort of exceptional crime completely. I only wish it could.

You can't protect women 100% from men like Couzons. But in this case it does seem like there were a number of serious police failings. That needs to be addressed. I agree that he is a tiny minority amongst men.

Societies with greater surveillance have lower crime rates， that and tougher penalties makes it less likely the crime will committed

@Graciebobcat

Stupid advice anyway, as it was likely someone the victim knew to have caught him and found her body so quickly.

Don't get to know men who are likely to murder you then, women

In this case I think looked likely from early on that looked link Sarah was attacked by someone she didn’t know.

It is very rare this is the case, of course. But in this case I do think it was reasonable for police in the area to at least urge women to take care, given the possibility of a further assault.

I get the sentiment- I would love to be able to believe my daughters were growing up in a world safer than that of my youth- but I think it’s a nice sound bite and nothing more.

But honestly, do any of us really think telling men not to attack women is actually going to anything? I mean- the majority of men who are not going to assault/abduct/rape/murder women (or anyone else) still won’t do it. Those that are planning on doing so, or who do so opportunistically, aren’t going to stop because someone told them not to. They all know that doing these things is illegal, wrong and immoral. They aren’t all going to turn round and say “you know what, you’re right! I won’t murder that woman I was planning to know you’ve pointed out I shouldn’t”.

It is also true that in most cases where a woman is assaulted, raped or killed the perpetrator is a man she knows. And very often lives with. Stranger rape/abduction/murders get more headlines because it fits a better narrative. The reality is making the streets safer for women is probably more straightforward than dealing with domestic violence, rape and murder by men known to their victims. A curfew will not help that.

I would not support a curfew. I think it’s a terrible idea. I can see why it might seem attractive- this type of measure might make some women feel safer (though think fewer people about might actually make it easier for those out with nefarious intentions. Not sure I’d feel that much safer). And it also has some element of “getting our own back”/ revenge/ making life harder for men, which might feel satisfying. But will it work? I doubt it.

It won’t stop those men who are determined to do one of these terrible acts- they’ll just create valid reasons to be out (like taking up shift work, for example). The law-abiding men will be at home, those that aren’t will still be. Not just those with intent to harm women, but men who are engaged in other illegal or dubious activities will still be out and about. Those men who are out fit reasonable reasons could still do something unplanned/opportunistically.

And I don’t think we can or should prevent all men leaving their house after 6pm for any reason forevermore. My husband requires to be out of the house after 6pm for work, this wil be true if many men. Who is going to pay them to be at home? Who is going to carry out their roles at work? So, if you then say ‘can only be out for a reason, like going to or from work”- you’ll be back to lots of men still being out and about. The idea is unworkable and foolish.

It’s also grossly unfair. And not just to men. We would not be able to do lots of things as a family and our children would not be able to go to many activities as DH could not take/collect them. It would impact on me in a very negative way, as I’d also have to change working hours (highly unlikely to be able to do that) in order to collect DC from school, for instance. Once current restrictions are at an end, why should I not be able to go for a meal with my husband? It’s not right or proportional. It won’t help. And I believe it would be counterproductive- it’s more likely to create ill feeling and resentment towards women, not create a “we must help women to be safer”. It’s a complicated issue and creating further divisions is not likely to help matters.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3991985-Rape-survivors-being-castigated-for-not-wearing-masks

If a man was attacked by a gang in a park, you would not hear the police saying 'don't walk through the park, it's gang territory', so why do we hear that about women, does the street not belong to them?

Of course if someone truly wicked wants to rape or murder, they would do it, but how can we explain this type of crime are heavily perpetuated by men?
Too much leeway and 'grey zone excuse' is given to men. They cross the line and it's being ignored or they can get out with a so light sentence they think they can get away with it

If a man was attacked by a gang in a park, you would not hear the police saying 'don't walk through the park, it's gang territory', so why do we hear that about women, does the street not belong to them?

Excellent point and well illustrated.

@smalalalalalala, has an excellent point with " They cross the line and it's being ignored or they can get out with a so light sentence they think they can get away with it"

Stats show the majority of violence is in domestic/relationships scenarios, and I have no experience working in that area.

But for the other 20% of cases, it's exactly as you say. The majority of cases I've seen the male perpetrator thinks the incident will not be reported, and is never seriously concerned that will be caught, and even if they are caught the case will not be brought forward. It's a carefully weight decision for them, often planned, and they are typically exactly right!! Theses offense are almost never a once-off, it's a pattern with several victims.

So someone like me who lives alone and whose friends all live in different parts of the city must just stay home forever until I die - gee thanks - or do i hire a male companion every time I go out? Do you hear how offensive this is ????

Its awful thank women cant.I never would..especially walking across a common.It is too dangerous.When you factor in that the guy was a police officer too...Just vile and unacceptable.