Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

Men have a capacity for violence which is different to women. You're a fool if you don't recognise that. They can overpower a woman easily. Their sex drive is usually higher. Their capacity to hurt people appears to be higher. In general, they appear to lack feeling and empathy like women in general. Of course there are some who are lovely. But they do not think like women. It's that simple.

@Eleganz

If a police force considers it reasonable to advise 50% of its residents to stay indoors at night because they might get attacked, surely they have utterly failed in their duty and are deliberately stoking fear? Why are women not raging against the police and those that fund them?

And that is even before we get to the fact that the suspect was a serving police officer who had already been investigated for indecent exposure.

The current tack on this in social media and politics seems to be the usual one of women raging against men as a class. And as usual this will change nothing. We need to direct our anger at those with the responsibility to create a safe society and the power to implement changes to do so.

The fact is, that women are in danger all the time from violence from men. It's nothing new.
You think the MET can somehow change that?

@NiceGerbil

'Girls should be taught high level self defence at school. Best all women can incapacitate most men if needed.'

This is another thing that feels positive to say but is essentially useless across the population.

Some women may be able to defend themselves well enough to get away, that's true.

However most men are simply that much bigger and stronger than most women to make it realistic.

There is also the point that women know that men who attack them could have the potential for really serious violence and fighting back may make the attack worse. That's a reasonable thought and a common reaction.

Many women freeze- again not uncommon and not a fault on their part.

There is also the fact that not all women and girls are physically capable. Women and girls with disabilities are at risk of abuse at higher levels than others.

What about physical disabilities? Women who are older or elderly?

I was 5'3 and 7 stone at 16 and have a physical disability. Nothing I can do about that.

If some women fight back better then men who want to attack will simply seek out more vulnerable victims. And/or learn how to counter those defences.

No problem with learning self defence- it increases confidence, is good for fitness etc.

But the idea that would actually decrease VAWG is a nice idea but not viable.

Those with training are less likely to freeze and most people with disabilities can still learn martial arts.

Yes men are stronger but strength isn’t the only issue - it’s about knowing techniques to break away and to incapacitate your attacker. Not enough women can defend themselves physically.

@grassisjeweled

Girls don't need more martial arts, men need to to behave!

The latter might be achieved in the former becomes the norm

@Gobbycop

Talk of a curfew is laughable.

Are some of you forgetting that a criminal doesn't follow the narrative, hence why they are a criminal.

Did the ban on handguns stop gun crime, nope.

Have any drug laws curbed the sale and use of them, nope.

You can educate a person not to be a rapist or murderer FFS, these people have always existed and always will.

A good starting point would be a judicial system that isn't so soft and that doesn't favour rehabilitation.
Long sentences for sexual and violent offences.

You are entirely missing the point.

@saraclara

Women told to be careful and not to go out alone

www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/sarah-everard-missing-women-clapham-19992681

Nicegerbil

If women were encouraged to report the wankers etc and it was taken seriously then some of these men would be off the streets before they got to the really awful stuff.

This is a good article on why we should report 'flashers'. It is a sexual offence and perpetrators can be put on the sex offenders register.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/eighteen-years-police-officer-i-know-indecent-exposure-isn-t-taken-seriously-9624093.html

Not all male rapists and murderers are psychopaths though.

[quote LiveintheNow]@saraclara

Women told to be careful and not to go out alone

www.mylondon.news/news/south-london-news/sarah-everard-missing-women-clapham-19992681[/quote]
What they're saying is that men are a danger to women. Why can none of you admit that?

@ViciousJackdaw

how about telling men not to attack women instead

That's not helpful at all. Men already know this. Whether they are listening is another matter.

Yes, but the problem is in this case its possible she was killed by a MET police officer. So the general message is: "women, dont walk alone at night in case one of us policemen decides to kill you" Pretty much all women are aware that they may get raped or killed anyway, both if they decide to walk or alone or, if alternatively by a male friend they trust to keep them safe so they DONT have to walk alone. In reality though, you have to choose how far you will let that justified fear dictate your life.

This case seems to have received a lot of press attention and also on Mumsnet a lot. Dreadful as this is it's not the first time a woman has disappeared and been found dead what's different about this one ?

I think some of you think that we live in a Utopian society where men are not a danger to women. They are! Just accept it. It has been the same for thousands of years. You absolutely need to learn, as a woman, how to protect yourself mentally and physically. Men are not going to change.

@lollipoprainbow

This case seems to have received a lot of press attention and also on Mumsnet a lot. Dreadful as this is it's not the first time a woman has disappeared and been found dead what's different about this one ?

I find it unusual too. Rich perhaps?

As a side note, I live in a country which currently has a curfew imposed from 9 o clock at night. The amount of anger that has generated - there were court cases, there were riots. A female relative (in the UK) was saying how scary it is that the government can do this. Yet this same relative was worried when she found out I went running after dark (this was winter so about 6 o clock). She was obviously saying this out of concern. But WHY is it a terrible breach of human rights when we tell everyone (men included) to stay off the streets after 9 pm as a temporary measure. But just "the way the world is" when we expect all women to stay off the streets much earlier for ever to stay safe.

@lollipoprainbow

This case seems to have received a lot of press attention and also on Mumsnet a lot. Dreadful as this is it's not the first time a woman has disappeared and been found dead what's different about this one ?

I think it is the fact she was missing for a while first - therefore her friends, family etc were raising as much attention about it in the media in the hope she would be found. Then when she turned up dead it was a bigger story. Plus the Met's involvement.

I live locally to where she was abducted. I often have to travel home on my own in the dark. I can't modify that behaviour or I can't work. I also don't see why I should.

I really want to see the narrative changed to focus on male violence rather than female victimhood. It is not '20 women were attacked' it should be '20 men committed attacks'. We don't say '20 houses were burgled' we say '20 burglaries were committed'.

I'm going to write to news editors requesting a change in reporting. Perhaps other people could do the same.

You are entirely missing the point.

No, I'm not.

A curfew will do fuck all.

Not sure how anyone would ever be able to measure the number of incidents that haven’t happened due to an individual taking those preventative steps? Of course it still happens (and of course, needless to say it shouldn’t) but not sure how anyone could conclusively say staying indoors on police advice whilst there might be a lunatic on the loose hasn’t prevented other crimes being committed?

I don't believe a curfew for men is appropriate，it is a very very small minority of men who are committing offences. A curfew for everyone fine - but I'm not sure we should go down that route. It would be better to have much more electronic surveillance and cameras. This would protect everyone and be very effective in reducing all types of crime

I genuinely think the police were recommending women in the area to stay in after dark if the a) had the choice and b) for a few days whilst they tried to track down the offender. I am sure they didn’t mean forever! I also think this is a shocking awful thing that happened but a very unusual and rare situation. Women will always feel wary at night on their own. Nothing will change that. My male partner also feels nervous out on his own at night in our area. I actually don’t see it just as a gender issue. Sadly crime is a part of life. Some people are selfish, greedy, ill, evil. Being careful is sensible but nothing will change.

I’m sick and tired of women being blamed for being victims.
Women are not safe in their own homes-what’s the advice there? Don’t go home?
When men are attacked why aren’t they told-do not go out!!!
Absolutely sick of it.

In my eyes the advice being given is no different to "lock your front door" to avoid being burgled. The message "don't rob people" is obvious.

The fact is there are a*#holes out there who want to do harm. We (as a society, not just women) know that we are at greater risk is some scenarios so i fail to see why we can't accept advice intended to help.

@AjayChe

The same platitudes are wheeled out every time something like this happens, but there's never much actual thinking behind it.

Yes it's actually much safer when more people are out and about. I walked home one night when we were in full lockdown, there was no-one around at all and only the odd car. I was absolutely shitting myself as I realised that if someone did want to drag me into a car or bushes there would be no-one to witness it.

@missbridgerton

Isn't this the consequence of men being able to access graphic and violent porn for free, 24/7?

I think is a BIG part of the problem.

@Notjustanymum

I’d be much happier if the Met put out a statement saying that any violence against women, starting with harassment and not limited to face to face harassment but including online threats, will be treated extremely harshly - and then, of course, to actually do this.

Well said.