AIBU to think many women put themselves in a bad financial position?

[Sunflowers095]

So there's a lot of talk about the gender pay gap and also how women have been more affected by the pandemic and had to take on more caring responsibilities. While I understand there are single parents etc. in most situations what I don't understand is:

• why don't women go for higher paying careers or marry lower earning men, therefore being the main breadwinner
• why don't women choose partners who will take on 50% of caring responsibilities, chores, etc. rather than have kids with someone who doesn't contribute and just put up with it?

Another thing I see often is women deciding to be SAHM, come back part time, extend maternity leave. Nothing wrong with this choice but in the context of a career surely it's not the best way to support that goal? Especially when many SAHM say that they decided to stay at home because their wage would barely cover childcare. That's not the point! Long term it increases the earning potential if a woman stays in work.

While I agree that a lot of inequality still exists I feel like many people make conscious choices that make their financial situation worse. Women I know who decided to take shared parental leave, go back to work full time, make their partner take on equal responsibility etc have all had great careers. Am I missing something in this conversation?

I'm not trying to be judgemental in any way towards non career driven women or women who want to be homemakers as I think it's great people have a choice and being a SAHM is an important job! I just mean purely from a financial/career perspective here.

@RUOKHon

Why can't he consider it now or later? Early retirement, still very fit to do it all, more more money and time to spend

I don’t think he could really pull off full moon parties, backpackers hostels, experimenting with drugs and no-strings shagging around in his late forties. Although I’m sure he’d love to try! It wouldn’t really be the same.

Most 20 somethings don’t do that when they travel either.

I did and it was bloody brilliant.

I met loads of friends whom I’m still in touch with now. Whenever we’ve all been together and someone starts reminiscing about the fun we had, DH will always say to me he wishes he’d had more carefree fun when he had the chance. He’s 48 now. His brother is only two years older than him and died from cancer very quickly a few years ago. I think he just has moments where he’s like, ‘sure we have the mortgage-free house and the pensions and the sensible savings, but if I get cancer and die within six months, would I rather have had that or some amazing experiences in my youth as well as with my family?’

There’s a lot of doom and gloom on MN sometimes. Don’t give up work for even a single second because one day your husband will fuck you over and you’ll be destitute. It’s better to run yourself ragged at the expense of your physical and mental health as well as your relationships, do 12 hour days on 4 hours sleep because god forbid you ever think of your husband and father of your children as someone you can rely on. Financially and professionally you must act at all times as if you’re single and never even had a family because he’s your enemy and never to be trusted. Unfortunately, sometimes that turns out to be the case for some women. But, guess what? That’s not the woman’s fault!

I wish someone had told me how much harder it is to juggle work with a school aged child, compared to nursery. Just popping back to FT work when they start school turns out to be unrealistic for many families.
Yes, this. I always wonder when people mention that it will all get easier when they are at school. Cheaper, maybe, but that is well compensated by the additional load. For me, it became twice as difficult - juggling wraparound and holiday care, keeping ten thousands minor things constantly on your mind - reading bands, PE days, homework, newsletters, PTA fundraising... and still there's an occasional: "Muuuuum, didn't you know today was an international dress as a pineapple day, and I was the only one without a costume!"

Ironic that this is currently above a MN query about whether to pay a pension as a SAHM.

Perhaps a teacher can tell me whether PHSE includes financial advice or whether compound interest plays a part in maths?

I am aware of the problems couples find themselves in when faced with the lack or expense of childcare, knowing several who hardly see each other since they do shiftwork to get wrap around care for children while still earning enough to rent/save for a home.

The problem has drastically changed since the sixties/seventies when homes were cheaper, public transport not so expensive, bursaries as opposed to fees for university etc etc - and savings now earn 0.25 per cent or less unless you can lock money away or take a gamble.

But both sexes needed to be educated about money.

@Symbion I have done it before, my elder two are 13 and 11 and I worked full time when they were at school full time. I didn't find it difficult. They used after school clubs and homework clubs. Their dad finished half day on a Friday.
My little two are 20 months and soon to be born and I plan to do the same again.
My 11 year old had ADHD and high functioning Austin's but I'm lucky in the fact the schools have always been good with him.

I think the person who stays at home in a partnership sometimes forgets about the future & while the worker is adding to a pension the stay at home person is not.

Sorry but you do sound ignorant and judgemental. For many women there is not much of a choice. Women are lower paid on average so are likely to be the lower earner in a relationship. For many people the hours offered by nurseries are not long enough to allow both parents to commute and work 9 to 5. Many jobs are not sufficiently high paying to cover the cost of childcare. Not everyone can be a high earner, we need people to do low paid jobs that keep the country running. If you have a choice about whether to work or not, or whether to go back part or full time, you are in the minority - most people are forced by circumstances to do what they do.

Marry a man of low earnings 😂😂😂 on my tinder I make sure I see 3 months payslips before the first date. I couldn’t marry a man of low earning.

Some of us want to stay home and see that as more important than a career
No everyone wants a career

You don’t need to have a career in the sense of being ambitious and progressing to be financially independent though. Just a job that covers your expenses. It’s all very well thinking staying home is more important until, like the multitude of women on here, the working partner buggers off and you’ve got no recent work experience and find yourself reliant on benefits. Staying home as a long term prospect beyond the early years isn’t good for anyone - the SAHP’s financial health and independence, the example it sets the kids, and the pressure on the earner

SAHPs might think they are protected by being married but however big a slice of the house and the pension you get you will have no income if it all goes pear-shaped. Read the divorce boards here. There are women who can’t find any work and claim paltry benefits. Spousal maintenance doesn’t really exist in the U.K. except for the super-rich.

Ladies, push your partner to actively care for and nurture your baby and they will be a better, more caring parent.

My husband has been a hands on dad ever since our children were born. They are 3 and 7 now and they have a wonderful relationship with their dad.

However, there is something different about the relationship I have with them. And I mean that from the way I feel about them and the way they feel about me.

They have a much closer bond and attachment to me, they always have done no matter how fantastic their dad is.

Even my husband will admit our sons feel differently towards me than they do him.

And yes, I do think that from birth that closeness has been there as a result of basic animal and primal instincts of being a mother, and that that closeness will always be there in a way that they don’t have with their dad.

@ThornAmongstRoses
I don’t feel that way at all. My boys are lucky in that they have an equally close and special bond with me and their Dad.

After all, he’s an adult human father, not a silverback gorillla or a lion.

I think if you have to push them you're with the wrong person.
Mine are grown up and treat us both the same, chat about the same type of stuff. Although cars and sport with dh, as they don't really interest me.
But we have our own topics of interest to discuss.
He would never have left everything to me or expected me to be the default parent, unless of course he was working, which was only a few hours a day.
I never wanted to be a dogs body, but being a sahm was fun.
I sometimes think women are going backwards ito expectations from men, and settling for incompatible.

Thornamongroses

My two are like this. The strong positive bond they have with DH is lovely but it's just a different bond they have with me. When they are poorly all they want is me, even when they are on a massive daddy phase. DD is a HUGE daddy's girl atm, I don't get a look in, but yesterday she was under the weather with cutting canines and just wouldnt touch food or drink from anyone but me.

My two are like this. The strong positive bond they have with DH is lovely but it's just a different bond they have with me.

Exactly.

If I’ve been out, when I come home the children come running down the stairs as soon as they hear the front door, calling out my name (well mummy) then jumping on me for hugs.

My husband doesn’t get that response.

When we are all together in the living room, it’s me they want to sit next to, it’s me they want to tuck them in to bed, it’s me they want to snuggle under a duvet with to watch a film etc.

They love their dad, they’re affectionate with him, they tell him that they love him all the time and they spend loads of time together without me, but the attachment they have with me is much stronger.

@ThornAmongstRoses that is actually really sad. We have the same relationship with the children. I think your situation only comes about where the dad isn't as hands on. My Dh does bed, bath, play time, school run, dinner, breakfast etc and they run to the door when he comes home. They go to him if they are hurt or need a cuddle just as much as they come to me. I wouldn't want it any other way. I don't have a closer bond than their dad.

The thing is at home you are the boss.

At work even if you worked really really hard and you were really really smart - and you contorted yourself to be that person they want you to be you will never be the boss.

And if by some miracle you did become the boss, you'd look around and realise that at least half of your fellow bosses were sociopaths who would happily push you under a boss to get your job.

Or you could take time with your children and take joy in the simple things they take joy in, And watch them grow. Keep them safe. Read stories.

It is basically, just a much nicer thing to do with your life. (and not what I do. I go to work and earn money)

@halloumihalloumi

I agree, it is sad. My experience is like yours; my boys run to both of us if we’ve been out and return home, not only to me. They will go to whoever they see first when they’ve hurt themselves.

Interestingly, when I was pregnant I had severe hyperemesis and with DS2’s pregnancy, I was virtually incapable of caring for DS1 (especially so when I was hospitalised). During that time, I noticed that DS1 cried out for Daddy when poorly or hurt and actively swerved me to get to him. Clearly, my lack of interaction during the pregnancy illness meant he’d spent most of his time with DH and so it was DH he wanted. This resolved itself when I got better, but I do think that it’s the level of interaction/interest the parent shows that influences the child.

Or otherwise, some women’s belief that the mother-child relationship is superior to the father’s and therefore it’s confirmation bias.

• halloumihalloumi

@ThornAmongstRoses that is actually really sad. We have the same relationship with the children. I think your situation only comes about where the dad isn't as hands on.

That’s not the case at all. They have so much quality time together. He’s always been very hands on.

I’m away from home two nights a week so he obviously does all their care then. They go out on walks together every weekend, rambling through forests and the like, when my son does his extra curricular sports it’s my husband that takes him. My husband is a teacher so he gets lots of time alone with the children over all the holidays whilst I work. He does their homework with them. He does all the childminder pick ups and drops off, he has football nights with the eldest son over the weekend where he and our son cuddle up in bed to watch the late night football game together, he baths them, does reading with them, he plays board games with them, the three of them go off and do the big weekly shop together each week and he even takes the children on holiday abroad three times a year without me (during the half term).

He’s amazing with the children.

The fact still stands though, that as hands on as their dad is they still have a closer bond to me.

*closer attachment I mean, not bond.”

@ThornAmongstRoses

Well then that’s down to your own behaviours as parents, it’s not because of some special, magical mummy bond.

All the research shows that babies and children are closest/most secure with their primary caregiver(s), whoever that/those person(s) may be.

why don't women go for higher paying careers or marry lower earning men, therefore being the main breadwinner
I’d have loved a higher paying career. But I wasn’t given the opportunity. Doors were closed. DH’s employer has an unwritten policy about not hiring women of childbearing age who might swan off on maternity (this also extends to other people who they think might be a “problem”). Lots of employers discriminate. Women on average still earn less than men. And lots of women want a higher earning man because they know he’ll have more opportunities than she will, and at some point she’ll need to give birth and be supported for a while.

why don't women choose partners who will take on 50% of caring responsibilities, chores, etc. rather than have kids with someone who doesn't contribute and just put up with it?
My DH was always very equitable. Until we had a baby and he didn’t have a breast to put in the baby’s mouth. Until he couldn’t safely cosleep because he wasn’t a breastfeeding mum. Until I was on maternity while he still had to get up for work in the morning, so of course the one who doesn’t have to get up should look after the baby at night. Until he was promoted so of course he had to focus on his job which left me holding the baby. We don’t purposely reproduce with dicks - they become that way after the baby is born.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me being a SAHM never entered my mind, it seems a very vulnerable position to be in. I've been with DH since teenagers, very happy with him and he pulls his weight, but I just couldn't be completely reliant on a person like that even if I though SAHN was best for kids (I don't think that anyway).

So when I was at uni and then when I fell pregnant accidentally soon after, I ploughed my energy into my career, first and foremost considering what do I WANT to do, I very quickly overtook my DH's salary going back full time after second child and have stayed in that position and now applying jobs considerably higher paying (emphasis on applying ha!)

It's not easy, DH's employer isn't very supportive or flexible so I won't pretend we have the perfect balance, I work more flexibly for the family, but I'm loud enough to dig my heels in if I'm unhappy about something.

I think there is an element of personal responsibility but if we are continually raising children in this environment they don't know differently, each family needs to break the cycle.

If your in the middle then unless your willing to live on a shoe string and have more month than money, then you both HAVE to work as you won't be entitled to anything.
This is me. We’d be better off if DH earned less because then we’d get top ups. As it is, we’re not well off but we’re just over the threshold to be entitled to any support.