If I say we're bad parents and he says he's not a bad parent, he's calling me a bad parent?

[SleepingStandingUp]

DS is struggling. He's 5 so it's clearly out fault not his. He told me he likes being naughty and hel Ike's telling lies. I don't think he means it as such but he'll contradict himself a lot - whether he enjoyed school, if he's been to the loo,l etc and has a tantrum every morning about going to school.

I told DH we're bad parents to have made him like this as in we need to do something to fix it as he got annoyed telling me to not call him a bad parent, he's not a bad parent. Which means he thinks it's all on me doesn't it?

I know it shouldn't matter, the only thing that matters is us fixing it so we can sort out DS bit how can we if he won't shoulder any blame?

DS is awesome but he's constantly telling me he dislikes school, the uniform, learning, being clever. He won't approach other children at play time and can be quite isolated but is then upset he's alone. We both parent him, how can I fix it on my own?

Yes YABU to call your DH a bad parent and YABU to assume that just because he defends himself he is therefore calling you a bad parent. You aren't but you were the one who said it not him.

Your DS is perfectly normal and lots of kids struggle with similar issues. You need to stop blaming someone and just try to find a solution. At 5 your DS won't know why he is feeling like this never mind be able to articulate it. If he does give you a reason it may not be the actual reason just his way of expressing himself immaturely.

Your best option is to speak to other parents who have been through similar issues and come out the other side. There are more of them around than you think and they are not bad parents.

What he needs most from you is reassurance that he is safe and that school is safe and a good place to be. Most children get used to it eventually it just takes some longer than others.

I'm the parent who has left the house with my child in pyjamas because she wouldn't put her uniform on at 5. we had screaming fits daily, she hated it. In her case it was a lack of choice, of having to do this. She's over it now but it was hard, it's nothing to do with my parenting it was all to do with how she felt about life, school etc at the time.

Is your husband very sensitive to the slightes criticism?

Because if my child was behaving like this I would indeed be looking at what we could do better.

Is he a child that has been given a lot of choices over the years.

It may be un PC to say but sometimes children shouldn't be given choices.
Sometimes they just need to be told this is it.
Too many options can drive them mad.

Regarding the whining.
Give him 5 minutes to whine after school and tell him that's it, "whine time" is over!

Get into the habit of asking him 3 things that make you laugh, smile, happy.
Ask him every night about 3 good things that happened today.

These things can be anything, like enjoying his chocolate toast, seeing the sun, watching a dog run a round.
Any bloody thing.
But you are asking him to search for happy things.
To help him change his thought pattern from negative to positive.

Maybe look up strategies on positivity.

Be firm about the uniform.
Its a non negotiable and he has to get on with it.
Ignore his tantrums completely.
He sounds as if he is the sole focus of attention, I appreciate he is very small at 5, but I think a little touch of tougher love, as in, " just get on with it" might help.

The world won't be as forgiving as you, he needs to be taught to understand that sometimes we just have to do what we are told and get on with things, without a fuss.

Maybe someone will have a book recommendation to help with strategies to guide him.

I’m not going to have a go at you about the bad parent label but I strongly advise for your own sake you drop that line of thought as it seems like neither of you are bad parents and instead of focusing on that you need to focus on how to make school work for your son. Have you spoken to the staff to ask how he is while he’s there? Don’t let them fob you off btw if they say he’s “fine” as he’s clearly not fine at all. For whatever reason he’s unhappy. It just means it might take you longer to figure it out.

@Weirdfan

What is it you think you as parents have done/not done/done 'wrong' to cause the problems you describe OP? What have school said about DS's behaviour/progress when he's there?

He's worked hard at school to come up to average, he's quiet but does his work. They note he doesn't instigate contact with other children, but will play if others ask him to. School will encourage him to go and ask someone to play with him but we all know he's got a habit of just talking at them not to them. he has a 121 (physical reasons) but is encouraged to separate from her at play time but i do think in ways this has affected him earlier on. He's def better with adults than kids.

We requested a CAHMS referral for his eating which i hoped might also help with some of the other areas as he also goes through periods of not liking eating.

He's clearly unhappy and i don't know why or how to be less of a shit parent to fix it. Fix IT as in the problems not him

Firstly, no need for any blame. This is normal parenting, you haven't done anything wrong. Children are all different.
You don't feel that your child is like other children - well tbh you don't know what's going on his other houses. Plenty of kids have screaming tantrums before school, esp age 5 (I am a teacher btw) My sister is going thro the same now. Sometimes there is something further like autism or adhd, sometimes not. Sometimes they are just a bit emotionally disregulated or unsettled for various reasons.
He's 5 - so he hasn't been in school long and for most of the time has had various lockdowns I imagine? Not hard to see how he would be unsettled.
You need to speak to school about how he is whilst there. You need to speak to GP and get their opinion as to whether further investigation is needed. You need to take advice from an child or Ed psych if possible about talking, recognising feelings and controlling out of control emotions. School may be able to refer for Elsa or play therapy. You can find resources online.
Lastly, so what is he only like dressing up, Tv and babies? Sounds fine. Other interests will develop naturally.

You mentioned babies OP - does he have a new sibling? Is he jealous that they get to stay home all day and be with you, while he has to go to school and be apart?

I think school must be very scary for younger children right now - if he already had a year under his belt when lockdown hit, then everything has changed from what he was used to. If this is his first year at school, then he's had to adjust to the massive change of going every day, under less than ideal conditions where he can't interact with other kids as much as he might like, and now he's been home schooled (or if youre key workers, he's been in a classroom disrupted by the teacher trying to manage online and in school at the same time.)

It's a tough time for everyone, but must be especially hard for the littlest ones who cannot really understand why everything feels so confusing and strange.

To leap straight to "we are terrible parents" is just pointless and self-defeating. His behaviour doesn't make you "good" or "bad" - it's how you deal with that, that's what makes you a good, supportive, understanding parent.

Good suggestions from PPs above about keeping it positive. I really wouldn't go down the "I've got an invisible hat you can wear" stuff - as you've already found out, it doesn't work and it undermines his trust in you to tell the truth.

Please stop with the shit parent thing- you’re really not a shit parent by the sound of it and it’s not helpful to you or your son to be so hard on yourself.

He has a 1-2-1? That's a bit of a drip feed!
So there are some difficulties? Could he be frustrated?

YABU

Don’t let them fob you off btw if they say he’s “fine” as he’s clearly not fine at all. For whatever reason he’s unhappy he does genuinely seem like he's ok once he's there, the SENCO is suprised i have such trouble. He'll also scream about the uniform but once it's on he keeps it on, he'll moan about school but he'll walk to school with me, he's sad at the gate but he'll go with the 121 and chats all the way down the path.

Its like... it's like he enjoys the drama and being upset, like saying "I hate school" etc has become a fixation or mantra. We're really positive about school, say how much the babies wish they could be big and go etc but it's like he needs to get a tantrum out. And yes he gets attention for positive behaviour. And no i can't ignore it because he''ll just go off and play dressed up in a fancy dress costume if i leave him, and we have to be out the house for 8.20.

Is your husband very sensitive to the slightes criticism? Yes. He does his share of everything, he comes down and helps with the babies if i need it during work time, he has them whilst i do dinner, he washes up after dinner and he does big ones bed so he does his share but yes, if i question anything he's massively stroppy.

Is he a child that has been given a lot of choices over the years probably, he's had a hard start so he's had lots of adult interaction and focus and i think it's def had an impact

Ask him every night about 3 good things that happened today. i always ask about what he enjoyed at school etc but he can never remember anything, can't remember what he learnt, only tells me that he didnt play with anyone.

Be firm about the uniform. we are. Dad does the babies and i help him but he very much ahs to get into his uniform and go. i;ve ven reminded him that we did this yesterday and he had to get dressed and go so it's pointless etc. It's like yesterday didnt happen

He sounds as if he is the sole focus of attention, I appreciate he is very small at 5, but I think a little touch of tougher love, as in, " just get on with it" might help.

I do feel sometimes because he's had such a hard start and was an only child until 4 1/2 that we've spoiled him

You can cause a lot of damage by not being consistent. In that sense you are trying to align you as a parenting team. He is not, from what you’ve mentioned.

I don’t know how much these issues are with your boy testing boundaries and how much are behavior issues.
But you cannot address everything in one ho. You and your DH have to agree (absolutely crucial that you do) on addressing some of it, ignoring some of it and prioritizing positive reinforcement on some of it. You absolutely have to agree and be consistent. Then it won’t feel like anything is happening for a while, there might be some steps back but then suddenly it will feel better

I don’t think your husband is saying you are a bad parent. He’s saying it’s not either of your fault. Lots of kids struggle at various stages. It’s your job as parents to help him navigate through but you can’t say all issues with kids are due to bad parenting.

Are there any other issues? SEN?
He has some physical issues. Does he have sensory issues? That might explain the eating and the colour and the uniform sensitivity.
He might hate learning because it's hard. And because he feels like a failure when he tries. It might also be confusing and hard for him if he has needs like dyslexia and dyspraxia.
It's unfair to expect a five year old to articulate such complex thoughts.
Also I have a shy child and a chatty child. My shy child is very clever and can talk endlessly when he knows you. I never forced him to socialise. He's quite happy having a small circle of friends, just 1 or 2 and being his quiet self. I think we can also have expectations of how are children should be and how they ought to interact and those can be damaging too.

You seem to be caught in a cycle where you think that something has caused this, that it must and can be 'fixed' and the blame lies in your parenting. I would suggest, gently, that this is counter productive. Maybe he can be helped but it will involve possibly not getting him to conform, but maybe helping him to deal with what might be confusing thoughts and a challenging environment. If you accept that he's wired differently (for whatever reasons), and think about how you can help him negotiate the world more easily, might that not be more productive?

And I think your DH is right. He isn't a shit parent. He didn't cause this. No one did. So I don't think he's suggesting you are a shit parent either.

Sounds very much like your child has some SEN needs. Very much like ADHD.
Of course it could just be the effects of lockdown too.
My dh and I used to blame each other and occasionally we still do, but if your child has something else going on then it won't be either of your parenting. Sadly before you can get help the services tend to try to make issues such as this about poor parenting and other parents as family do this too. Most of what you describe was my ds's issues at this age and we also thought he was strong willed and naughty. 5 years later we now know he has a range of significant disabilities. Your ds may just be going through a patch...but don't discredit these issues. Suggest doing a bit of research and talking to the school too.
Best of luck

But what happens if you ignore the 'I hate school' and go with 'oh do you? I see.' and leave it at that. Don't force him to be positive about school. Don't ask him about 3 fun things. Maybe ask him about what 3 things you don't know about that happened at school. One of my kids tells me in excruciating detail about what happened when people got into trouble. Nothing else. I have no clue about what else he does in school.

I also have a child with cerebral palsy who had a tough start in life. And I think you might have to cut him and yourself some slack. He moans and whinges, to some extent let him. Don't require him to be cheerful about putting on the uniform- just block out the screaming and then get on. (Easier said than done). If he whinges on the way to school, as I said, just go 'hmm oh really?' instead of trying to create some positive environment.

Don’t you think it crazy we force 5 year olds to wear a uniform?!

No, he's probably saying that neither of you is a bad parent. Why are you so obsessed with blame? It's not going to help you help your son.

You did not 'make your son like that'. You're crediting yourself with an unreasonable amount of power there.

He is like that. There may be reasons. They won't be all about you.

The more important thing than worrying about reasons, is working out how you can help him.

@SleepingStandingUp

Don’t let them fob you off btw if they say he’s “fine” as he’s clearly not fine at all. For whatever reason he’s unhappy he does genuinely seem like he's ok once he's there, the SENCO is suprised i have such trouble. He'll also scream about the uniform but once it's on he keeps it on, he'll moan about school but he'll walk to school with me, he's sad at the gate but he'll go with the 121 and chats all the way down the path.

Its like... it's like he enjoys the drama and being upset, like saying "I hate school" etc has become a fixation or mantra. We're really positive about school, say how much the babies wish they could be big and go etc but it's like he needs to get a tantrum out. And yes he gets attention for positive behaviour. And no i can't ignore it because he''ll just go off and play dressed up in a fancy dress costume if i leave him, and we have to be out the house for 8.20.

Well I said that before I realised he already has a 1-2-1 and based on my own experience with mainstream school who were determined that my kids issues weren’t their problem. Although my child was a little different to yours in that they were indiscriminate about where and when they had meltdowns. I won’t lie- I felt vindicated slightly when school saw the true extent of them. My child has ASD and ADHD btw along with learning difficulties. And I quite agree- ignoring the meltdowns doesn’t really work when you have time constraints to stick to and a child who can keep it up for hours.

I stand by what I said though about not blaming yourself for being a “shitty parent”.

@SleepingStandingUp

Don’t let them fob you off btw if they say he’s “fine” as he’s clearly not fine at all. For whatever reason he’s unhappy he does genuinely seem like he's ok once he's there, the SENCO is suprised i have such trouble. He'll also scream about the uniform but once it's on he keeps it on, he'll moan about school but he'll walk to school with me, he's sad at the gate but he'll go with the 121 and chats all the way down the path.

Its like... it's like he enjoys the drama and being upset, like saying "I hate school" etc has become a fixation or mantra. We're really positive about school, say how much the babies wish they could be big and go etc but it's like he needs to get a tantrum out. And yes he gets attention for positive behaviour. And no i can't ignore it because he''ll just go off and play dressed up in a fancy dress costume if i leave him, and we have to be out the house for 8.20.

Hi Sleeping, as you know I’ve had similar issues with my DD and also felt that we are awful parents, and have spoilt her as she is an only child.

I did get some good advice from the thread I posted in Parenting a couple of weeks ago. One comment was that we’d got stuck in a dynamic of DD complaining/ whinging/ being grumpy, and me reacting badly. Another was that DD was getting attention from these tantrums, and even negative attention was better than no attention. Both of these were very true and I’ve tried to change my interactions with her.

One thing that sounds familiar is the constant complaining (uniform, going to school). I used to try to argue with her (saying you’ll enjoy school once you’re there) and she’d get even grumpier. Now I basically ignore what she says and just say yes, or make agreeing noises, and continue with what we’re doing after a minute (getting dressed, breakfast). It’s stopped that cycle of arguments (so far).

I’m also trying to be more patient as she has had a lot of upheaval, and not stress if she seems to regress a bit when at home.

The toilet issue is still there, but we now just insist she goes when she gets up and before she goes to bed. Taking the pressure off at other times seems to have helped.

I don’t mean that aimed at you OP so sorry, I pressed send too soon.

What I mean, is every child is an individual and if he hates wearing a uniform at 5 years old then I don’t blame him, it actually shows he has his own mind which certainly isn’t a bad thing!

Also you’re not good or bad parents as it simply doesn’t work that way! I’m sure you’re both great parents, however I’d be looking at your own self confidence and why you’re happy to call yourself a bad parent?

@SleepingStandingUp

DS is struggling. He's 5 so it's clearly out fault not his. He told me he likes being naughty and hel Ike's telling lies. I don't think he means it as such but he'll contradict himself a lot - whether he enjoyed school, if he's been to the loo,l etc and has a tantrum every morning about going to school.

I told DH we're bad parents to have made him like this as in we need to do something to fix it as he got annoyed telling me to not call him a bad parent, he's not a bad parent. Which means he thinks it's all on me doesn't it?

I know it shouldn't matter, the only thing that matters is us fixing it so we can sort out DS bit how can we if he won't shoulder any blame?

DS is awesome but he's constantly telling me he dislikes school, the uniform, learning, being clever. He won't approach other children at play time and can be quite isolated but is then upset he's alone. We both parent him, how can I fix it on my own?

Initially it reads to me as if you ask him too many questions OP

@billy1966
Your advice will only work with a neurotypical child. We don't know this child is. When we were at this stage we had a lot of advice like this and also were 'strict' routine driven parents...made it all a lot worse. If the child has SEN issues demanding they put on uniform or eat certain foods will just make behaviour worse. I wish we'd known earlier as now we're having to undo the damage done by the firm parenting.

For anyone reading this who has the smallest suspicion their child may be neuro-atypical/diverse I'd urge you to read wider than standard parenting wisdom. What works for most kids won't work and can be very damaging. I have several dc and what works with the rest wont work with the SEN one.

Contact your GP. They will be able to refer you onto the right professionals to help.
I've just done this for some of my daughters behaviours etc.

They will give you the right help and support.
Best of luckxx