Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

Such as shame.

What about children's mental health? Or is it a case not that all will be back at school from tomorrow that it no longer matters?

The 5 and 6 year old I teach already struggle with the length of the school day. They are sitting at tables all bloody day for zero safety benefit thanks to Jenny bloody Harries. Keeping them there for longer is just unfair.

For those who are for a longer day, shorter holidays....

Who is going to teach the children? Where will they be taught? Who is going to pay?

Teachers’ pay is based on 190 days in school, 185 pupil days.

There is a notional hours/year figure too. (Although virtually all teachers will go over that.)

Most schools look like builders’ sites a day after closing until a day before opening in the summer. Its the time for decorating, building, renovation.

When I taught I spent a deal of my holiday time clearing up, maintenance, preparing. I wouldn’t be alone in the building.

In term time I rarely left before 5.30 and usually did 2-3 hours at home most evenings. (And didn’t teach a marking heavy subject)

So if I was to stay, with pupils , another couple of hours, I’d be leaving at, say, 7 - 7.30 and still have my 2-3 hours work back at home.

It’s a bit of a big ask.

@Ylvamoon

NO to longer school days, unless they ditch the homework! YES to shorter holidays. I think school provision needs to be updated and more in line with the average working family.

This would cost far too much in extra teacher wages though.

Why is voting turned off ?

Happy with the way things are now. Wouldn't mind a staggered end of day though so let's say formal teaching ends at 3.05. After that all kids get to play and run around, parents pick up any time from 3.05 -3.30.

6 weeks holidays is great. It's a proper reset and allows people to be themselves develop their personality away from the school institution. It's a bit of freedom.

I think either or both, an extra 20 or 30 mins per day of school and/or loses week or two of the summer hols. Bit the logistics vs payoff might not be worth it.
I don't feel like my kids are behind though.
There will be a greater disparity between kids going back that's for sure.

So many parents seem to miss the point about underfunding of schools. Smaller classes and more investment in resourcing and buildings would have a massive impact on progress. Definitely, smaller classes would improve children's wellbeing, health and educational outcomes.

SEN dc what about them? Many need extra TA's or teacher hours who is going to fund this? & many of these dc get really tired & couldn't cope with longer days - let alone inflicting un qualified PE teaching where they have no understanding of developmental delays & how competition can make them feel (dd had severe dyspraxia amongst other issues & I have vivid memories of how upset she used to get on sports days) & she needed afterschool clubs that worked for her specific needs & interests - I can see how this idea would be wrong for so many dc with various forms of sen/disability.(let alone interfering with their therapy sessions after school)
Ditto with younger dc of infant age group. After school clubs are about winding down for many dc or geared to their interests.
I was looking up OFSTED analysis of children of different ages & the main issues are communication & social & emotional development delays & structured after school lessons won't solve all these

They are better off funding more support staff in the usual hours and funding good quality holiday playschemes.

@Bluewavescrashing

So many parents seem to miss the point about underfunding of schools. Smaller classes and more investment in resourcing and buildings would have a massive impact on progress. Definitely, smaller classes would improve children's wellbeing, health and educational outcomes.

Absolutely this.

Quality education costs (how many MPs send their children to state schools - and state schools that aren’t selective or in deprived areas?). Years of austerity and cuts have decimated our education system and it’s us, the teachers who still care, who still love to teach and want pupils to be the best they can be, is what keep it together. Unfortunately good will and passion only goes some way, we need Gav to cough up the bucks!

@Bluewavescrashing has a major point - where is all the money coming for this - let alone the lack of larger areas, classrooms, & outside play? & of course the extra staffing (catering? dc will require snacks for these longer days & cleaning? decoration & repair is usually done is long school holidays -when will this be done?)

@Findahouse21

I think they should start again with the school arrangements. 6 terms of equal length, seperated by 1-2 weeks of holiday. Work out what teachers are paid now and then change it to reflect that it's a full time job.

You mean you think teaching isn’t a full time job? Honestly. The absolute disregard in which teachers are held never ceases to amaze me.

For those who are for a longer day, shorter holidays....

Who is going to teach the children? Where will they be taught? Who is going to pay?

Teachers’ pay is based on 190 days in school, 185 pupil days.

The proposal would see hours stay the same. Holidays would be moved to a different part of the year, not lost. So two weeks at Whit and October half term instead of 6 weeks in summer.

I don't think 1 week holidays are long enough for children to get fully rested, but 6 weeks can be a bit long for some too. I know mine lose the will to go back in the last part of the summer break. I wouldn't mind this.

I fundamentally disagree with increasing hours in school, however.

Lots of people (in the media) are suggesting that they’ll just change contracts of teachers, and the teachers will just have to ‘suck it up’ however, they conveniently forget that lots of other staff work in schools too.

TAs are often on minimum wage, you can’t ask them to be in work an extra 5 hours a week and expect them to do this voluntarily. Teachers are salaried, so in theory they could decrease holiday time and decide not to pay them (I think there’d be union involvement) - however TAs only get paid during term time- it’s a term time only contract (and no where near enough a high enough wage already, for the fantastic job they do)

Then there is the issue with catering the extra weeks in school. I’ve never worked in a school that don’t out source catering and dinner staff to a private company. I doubt they’ll be happy to be told to just suck it up and, provide extra food and staff for free!

Then there’s electric bills, heating, site management (again, often out sourced) and office staff to consider. And the fact resources will run out quicker.

Even if they don’t pay teachers, it’s going to cost them more than the approx £6000 per school they’ve given so far.

No I don't agree with this at all. My son's an adult now but I remember when he was at school, the kids were all exhausted and starting to need a break by the end of term and even more so by the end of the year. They need a decent break.

@motherrunner many schools are either in the red or just bumping along financially often PTA are funding for essentials & in the more deprived areas schools don't have parents with enough money to fund extras
So yes EXTRA MONEY & PLENTY OF IT to support more qualified TA'a & teachers within the school hours

I’d be in favour of a 5 term academic year with the holiday more evenly spread. IIRC there are 39 weeks of term and 13 weeks of holiday.

So, for example (using 2021/22 dates):
Term 1: 16 Aug to 8 Oct (8 weeks)
Holiday 1: 9 Oct to 24 Oct (2 weeks)
Term 2: 25 Oct to 17 Dec (8 weeks)
Holiday 2: 18 Dec to 3 Jan (2 weeks)
Term 3: 4 Jan to 25 Feb (8 weeks)
Holiday 3: 26 Feb to 13 Mar (2 weeks)
Term 4: 14 Mar to 6 May (8 weeks)
Holiday 4: 7 May to 22 May (2 weeks)
Term 5: 23 May to 8 July (7 weeks)
Holiday 5: 9 July to 14 Aug (5 weeks).

You’d still get a long weekend for Easter, but not an Easter holiday per se

As long as they don't get homework as well. I would rather they had a longer school day and no home work. I would also prefer for the holidays to be spread a bit more but I think four weeks in the summer would be food to make the most of the weather but then make the May holiday and October holiday a week longer. Then you have lots of options for going away

lets not forget that schools often hire out their buildings to get extra needed finance after schools & in school holidays!

Term 1: 16 Aug to 8 Oct (8 weeks)....

8 weeks is far too long! No way would mine have lasted that long, especially in primary.

YES to shorter holidays. I think school provision needs to be updated and more in line with the average working family

Children's lives should not be organised around the world of work. Work needs to work for our children not against them.

Children want and need to spend time with their families, they want and need to be able to play, have hobbies, chill out etc.

Maybe it's working hours that need to change? Societies priorities? The cost of living etc? Maybe we need a change in attitude as to what is expected of parents and what being a parent entails?

Parking kids in school for more hours of the day and more weeks of the year is not the answer.

I don't I'm really going to miss my kids tomorrow I wish they could be home longer. I don't work though so it's easy for me to say that.

Not what was asked but I would actually rather they spent say half an hour - hour longer at school per day, and got no homework.

No, I don't.

It would wholly screw up my conferencing season, and the opportunity during the summer to make up for the time I can't spend with my DC owing to my teaching windows never coinciding with his. I also don't subscribe to the (debunked) theory that quantity of time spent in classrooms equals quality of education.

I'd get to spend even less time with my child, who would get holidays during darker times of the year with less good weather, when I couldn't be with them, and less time out of doors in the summer.

Lose-lose for me.

I'm with the PP who suggests burning uniforms and scrapping the pointless metrics like SATs that do nothing to improve education for children, and bringing back GCSE coursework.

One 8-week half term in a year is hell and absolutely not conducive to quality learning. Moving the school year around in order to allow schools to have lots of them would be utterly counter-productive.