Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

We used to finish at 4pm in the old days as we had afternoon breaks and longer lunches; many kids went home.

Few schools have that these days.

My 16 dd goes to private school and her day is 8:35 - 5:25. They do get something to eat in the afternoon , if they want it. It also means she never has any home work other than revision for exams. High academic standards reflect this regime. But then smaller classes and zero disciplinary issues help. School holidays are longer. Level of interactive classes ,one to one online tuition and weekly feedback reports during lockdown means her day is only sightly less. The big drawback of course is the cost. But yes, longer days make a difference.

Anacdata, but:

Our secondary had one year where, due to dates, the Christmas holiday was reduced to 10 days.
The next term, we had a parents' evening about 2 weeks into term. Teacher after teacher looked ill or was absent (they don't have a "staff room" so it wasn't they were all passing it between them) and later the school, said that they had the worst sickness rate of staff and pupils over January/February, plus they said they could see the children really struggle that half term.
They rearranged the school day to have slightly longer each day and gave themselves an extra week at Christmas, and they've found since then that absent rates have dropped massively and the children are much better for it in many ways.

Definitely not!

Instead of making school days longer, I'd make working days shorter so that there's not such an issue with childcare.
My children struggle with the length of the day as it is - and there has to be room for them to do out of school activities, meet with their friends, etc.

Summer holidays could possibly be one week shorter, but then that week should be put on Easter or a half term?

Teachers need more time to prepare, they work excessively hard as it is. And the summer holidays is important to recharge. As an ex-teacher, there really is a limit on how much anyone can take in in one day. You need lots of breaks, and downtime for the brain to process and retain information. It's the same with work. Productivity goes up when people work fewer hours. Making school days longer doesn't necessarily mean that children will learn more. They'll just get more tired and zone out.

Our Year 11s already have 'session 6' to end their day with revision - I know many schools also do this. The kids then struggle to complete all homework and the conscientious ones are working until 10-11 at night.

So no to all changes

Pyewacket it's the smaller class and better facilities that will have a big impact there. And possibly single sex?

I taught a class of 20 once, amazing. I went to a private primary school for a while and the small class size was the most memorable factor.

As above, ££££££££££

YANBU. It's nice to actually see my DC after school and do something before tea. I'd hate longer days. Plus they'd be shattered.

And school holidays are fine as they are imo.

No, they can do one.

There seems to be a really common misconception among non teachers that children are empty, willing vessels for endless amounts of knowledge to be poured into for great periods of time each day. If it was that easy, we wouldn't have any problems with any child ever, would we?

@motherrunner
You know peak times will just change to the school holidays whenever they are? And there’ll be less time in the summer so prices will increase even more to meet demand. It will make it worse not better for you!!!

I don't think the school day needs to be longer as there's already breakfast clubs before school and lots of activities and clubs after school. Some students may want to do their homework at the end of the day at school with some support as they don't have a great situation at home to do it all.

There was a model of a 4 week summer holiday with the terms evenly divided with 1 or 2 weeks between them. Don't remember the details but it added up to the same length of school year just differently arranged. Moveable religious holidays could be an issue. I don't think the summer break should be less than 4 weeks as everyone needs a decent break.

People always say things about school without knowing the facts. Someone once told me teachers have 6 months off in holidays! No, it's about 13 weeks total if I'm correct and they work through a fair chunk of that. The school day ends between 3pm and 3.45pm in most places.

We have the largest class sizes in Europe, larger than in the US.

That would significantly impact learning.

As a teacher I’d happily take 4 weeks summer for an extra week in October and an extra week in may.

As a parent I think it’s unreasonable. I see how much my children need the 6 weeks off.

@Theunamedcat If, as I wrote in my post, staying for homework or activities is optional, then it wouldn't be an option for many kids, unless they ran 2 sets of school buses.

My dd goes to a private secondary and the longer school day is the one thing we do NOT like about it. She does some extracurricular activities in normal times and when you combine that with homework it means she literally has zero free time during the week.

@Findahouse21

I think they should start again with the school arrangements. 6 terms of equal length, seperated by 1-2 weeks of holiday. Work out what teachers are paid now and then change it to reflect that it's a full time job.

No thanks.

Longer days and shorter holidays?? Why don't we just cancel childhood all together?

Even before covid children's mental health issues were on the rise due to stressful home life and stressful school. Kids becoming burnt out, switching off education, behavioural problems, eating disorders, even self-harm - some feel that they are just in secondary school exam factories. Yes, longer days and shorter holidays will make it easier for childcare reasons but there will be a cost to this not just a financial one.

@Findahouse21

I think they should start again with the school arrangements. 6 terms of equal length, seperated by 1-2 weeks of holiday. Work out what teachers are paid now and then change it to reflect that it's a full time job.

Teaching is already a full time job

Longer days should equal longer holidays, surely. Or shorter days and shorter holidays. Kids already spend too much time in formal education and not enough time playing, exercising and being bored. Childhood is short enough without spending it shut up indoors for 8 hours a day.

Longer days no. Ds at special school wouldn't cope with that. Shorter holidays. Would be ok with that because there is nothing for teenagers like him in school holidays although I would be just as happy with suitable activities he could attend.

@Hollyhead

Longer school day definitely although not all taught - I would take PE out of the school teaching day and have PE for all children 3.30-4.30pm most days a week. Doesn’t all have to be delivered by a qualified teacher - just responsible adults who can get them running around and moving.

No thanks. Children can run around at home, with friends, at clubs... no need to be tied into school hours.

@Batmanandbobbin

As a teacher I’d happily take 4 weeks summer for an extra week in October and an extra week in may.

As a parent I think it’s unreasonable. I see how much my children need the 6 weeks off.

I agree with that schedule. I have seen every summer my DC have massive learning loss (although I know that may not apply to all). And May and October half-terms could be used for all that revision required by the blood endless testing testing testing, mocks, mocks, mocks, which is quite hard to fit into one week. So the extra holidays would not very restful for a bright pupil in years 10-13 but at least allow them to fit in all the wretched revision for the never-ending tests and exams.

YANBU

@RMRM

No, they can do one.

There seems to be a really common misconception among non teachers that children are empty, willing vessels for endless amounts of knowledge to be poured into for great periods of time each day. If it was that easy, we wouldn't have any problems with any child ever, would we?

Exactly. When adults go to work, we are generally more perky and productive in the first hour of the working day than the last hour of the working day. And we are only concentrating on one job!

Kids days are filled with an hour of learning and absorbing trigonometry then an hour on Shakespeare then an hour on Ox Bow lakes then an hour on Atomic Structure then an hour on WW1.

Every lesson they have to process brand new information from significantly different subjects taught in significantly different ways into their working memories successfully and be able to recall it all in the next lesson in order to build upon it. It’s very draining and taxing on the brain. Short term/working memories have a very limited capacity.

I teach full time and really enjoy it, despite the workload and negative attitudes from many MNers. However

Most teachers are currently on their knees due to massively increased workload during lockdown. Teaching key worker children and delivering home learning, giving feedback, phoning parents.

All the teachers I know already work 50-60 hours a week. I get home at 6pm and want to spend time with my own kids, eat a meal, sort things out for the next day. My class leave the building at 3.20pm but I certainly don't.

Extending the school day and/or cancelling holidays will push teachers over the edge and they will leave in droves.

Do you really want your children bring taught by unqualified, unexperienced, hastily recruited staff? Or is the priority just to have them in school for longer?

It’s a no from me, summer holidays should stay.

I’m all for smaller classes, anything above 20 is ludicrous