Do you WANT longer school days and shorter school holidays?

[shadowlily]

YABU- yes I want schools to have longer school days and shorter holidays

YANBU- no I'd rather keep the hours/terms we have.

I keep seeing this is being discussed in the media today, do you think it's likely to happen? Personally I think kids would benefit more from the summer holiday and being able to catch up on the activities they've missed and socialisation with friends. They've been home schooled to keep up with the curriculum (for the most part! I know this might be a contentious statement for some!) but nothing has replaced the play dates, day trips, parties etc. they have missed.

What do you think?

@WarriorN

We have the largest class sizes in Europe, larger than in the US.

That would significantly impact learning.

I'd imagine smaller class sizes would have a bigger impact on learning than longer terms (but I'm not a teacher)

@miserablecat

Not what was asked but I would actually rather they spent say half an hour - hour longer at school per day, and got no homework.

I would rather scrap homework in primary completely and just prioritise reading at home with parents/grandparents/sibling for ten minutes every day.

I'm a bit late to this thread but my kids school is 8.45-3.30. They get the bus and are out of the house from 7.30am-5pm as it is, even longer days would be awful, especially in winter, it's already dark when they leave the house and dark when they get home. They need time to be able to do guides/cadets/football etc

Holidays, if they want to move them around so they are more evenly spaced, fine, no problem with that.

Can you imagine seeing over your mum's shoulder that she wishes school days were longer and holidays shorter?

It's a pretty miserable place we're at in terms of our attitudes towards our children.

We need to organise our lives and routines in ways that work for educating and socialising happy, healthy children. We don't need to organise our children's lives and routines to facilitate antiquated ways of working.

I notice that the more we work the higher the cost of living gets and the less children get of their parents time and attention and the more miserable their childhoods become.

Shoving the kids in school more isn't the answer. We already have some of the shortest holidays, longest school days, youngest school starting age and we're doing worse than countries with different approaches. More of the same isn't the answer.

Our children must know on some level that we think of them as inconvenient and expensive and something to be fitted around work and childcare etc and that the only measure of worth they get recognised for is academic results. It's all fucked up and needs rebalancing imo. This isn't humane living.

Awful idea but not surprising. Best to introduce the idea of few holidays and longer hours early and slowly so no one grows up expecting better. The elite won't care as the public schools will allow them to take what time off they like and they can afford to travel when they wish. The rest of us will be cogs in the Tory machine. If this goes ahead annual leave for adults will be next. I'm not a conspiracy theorist about the pandemic at all but I do think the government will exploit it to their fullest advantage.

@Piggywaspushed

Talking of circadian rhythms, there six a whole bunch of thinking that says the school day for teenagers should begin later! Wellington College (private school so it can) has been starting lessons at , I think, 10.30 am for some time now.

I can assure you they have NOT!

It would feel like I was being punished! No thanks.

No. This idea won't be popular.

@Theunamedcat

The school day is shorter now than when I was a child and they have to learn so much more

I finished at 3.20pmnwhen I was at school, I left 40 years ago, my Dd finishes at the same time now.

When would teachers see their own kids? Mine are out of the house from 730 until 6 as it is. And then I ignore them every night cos of all the work I have to do after.

[quote mumwon]@motherrunner many schools are either in the red or just bumping along financially often PTA are funding for essentials & in the more deprived areas schools don't have parents with enough money to fund extras
So yes EXTRA MONEY & PLENTY OF IT to support more qualified TA'a & teachers within the school hours[/quote]
Yes!

Actually my last post seemed a little arrogant. It’s not just teachers who whole schools together - it’s the whole school community. Admin staff (are any other office workers required to cover lessons, be in hand for a crying student, be front facing to anxious parents?); amazing TAs (and I count my own DS’ in that. She helped him, in one year go from ‘not met’ to ‘mastery’); the site staff who work diligently behind the scenes; the lunch time staff who always have time for a quick chat with the pupils to see how they are.

In schools everyone goes above and beyond. Some people may think state education is horrendous already, imagine what it would be like if the staff ‘worked to rule’?

As I said before, fucking around the terms/days costs nothing and will achieve NOTHING.

@TheHoneyBadger

Can you imagine seeing over your mum's shoulder that she wishes school days were longer and holidays shorter?

It's a pretty miserable place we're at in terms of our attitudes towards our children.

We need to organise our lives and routines in ways that work for educating and socialising happy, healthy children. We don't need to organise our children's lives and routines to facilitate antiquated ways of working.

I notice that the more we work the higher the cost of living gets and the less children get of their parents time and attention and the more miserable their childhoods become.

Shoving the kids in school more isn't the answer. We already have some of the shortest holidays, longest school days, youngest school starting age and we're doing worse than countries with different approaches. More of the same isn't the answer.

Our children must know on some level that we think of them as inconvenient and expensive and something to be fitted around work and childcare etc and that the only measure of worth they get recognised for is academic results. It's all fucked up and needs rebalancing imo. This isn't humane living.

So true.

Where will it end? 24/7 working?

No, I don’t think they should change.

And if they did change they certainly shouldn’t be expecting teachers to cover all the extra hours needed.

The school day is shorter now than when I was a child

It certainly isn’t for me and I’m in my 40s. We started at 8.50 and finished at 3.15-primary and 8.40-3.30-secondary.

Now, it’s 8.45-3.30 primary and 8.30-3.30 secondary for my children. We also used to have long lunches (1 hour in secondary and longer in primary) and a 20 minute morning break, whereas breaks and lunches now are much shorter.

No. The only change I think may be good is maybe 4 weeks at summer and move the other 2 weeks to make the spring and autumn half terms 2 weeks instead of 1. They don’t need more hours of lessons, perhaps the option of more fun clubs straight after school eg sports, arts, programming.

I do.
My DC don't lol

I have seen studies done with grown ups showing when the work day is shorter then concentrate better, work harder and end up doing more work.

OK, witches, Anthony Seldon was definitely advocating it. Will google. Perhaps a different school took it up in the end but it was definitely done.

When would we mark the GCSE and A Level exam papers if the summer holiday was shorter?

We had 2 x 15 minute breaks and a whole hour lunchbreak when I was at school. We also had two form times a day. About the same length day but with way more space in it.

At my school currently we have no shorter breaks and only 40mins for lunch and just one 20minute form time that's rammed full of things to do.

God knows how anyone 'learns' when on such a production line.

Smaller classes, more staff (and consistent staff would be nice, ie. prioritising staff retention and stability) and a less manic environment is what we all need.

@Theluggage15

What is really needed is smaller class sizes, the U.K. tops the European league for number of pupils in classes. Smaller class sizes would be better for both children and teachers. This is where money and effort should go, not faffing around with holidays.

This.

This is the one single thing, that would make a HUGE difference to outcomes. They don’t like to admit it though.

I KNOW I could teach more effectively with 20 in my class as opposed to 36. I could mark books and give better feedback; I could spend more time with each child; I could more easily differentiate.
36...some are lucky if I know their name.

Longer days? Shorter holidays? They’ll do nothing other than cause resentment, stress, increased sick leave, a reduction to effective planning and feedback due to less time for these things; teachers leaving teaching, TAs leaving, because let’s be honest, they aren’t paid enough as it is. Kids disengaging as the day is too long. I genuinely cannot see ANY benefit whatsoever.

If they do this...it’ll be to make the adult population work longer and more often and that’s about it.

Yes

@Literallynoidea

Yes

Care to expand your opinion?

@tillyandmilly

Why do school days end so early ? 2.30-2.45? I started at 8.30 and finished school at 4pm in the 80’s -

I was at school in the early years of the 80s and teaching by the end of them. Different areas of the U.K. In neither did I have those hours. 9-3.30 was most common, looking at what I did and what friends were doing. With 2 breaks and an hour at lunch. There were 8 lessons of 35 mins each = just over 4.5 hours of teaching. I’m a supply teacher now as teaching just became impossible (after 30 years full time, so I’m not a wimp). The last school I worked in was 8.25-2.40 with one break and a 35 min lunch. However, there were 5 lessons of 55 mins each = just over 4.5 hours (it’s 5 mins less per day). The start and finish times don’t tell you how long they are working.

Nobody who has ever spent more than 5 minutes in a school wants this. The days are the length they are, and the terms are the length they are, because children reach their limit. They cannot absorb any more learning past a certain point. They are tired.