Parents taking out a loan for a sibling

[Belice9222]

Hey all, I found out by an accident( my father has asked me to check his email in the past and I was still logged onto his email in an old phone I switched on), so a popup came that the solicitors fees need to be paid for and they are set to purchase a house for 18900,my parents claim my brother will pay for the loan payments, even my father has instructed my mother having to pay 3k for the admin fees for the loan. We have had many arguments in the past over them preferring my brother, quick back story- I moved out to another country at 17, they did already back then more for my brother, he didn't do well in one school he got sent to another, I got put into the school he left I was bullied by the teachers and when I asked to move to my granny in another town my mum said no we don't have money, my parents paid for 8 years of uni for my brother, for his apartment in the uni city, it was privately rented not student accommodation that wasn't good enough, paid for his driving licence, leased a cars for him he never took bus or train, my brother has messed up a few times my parents have had to pay victim off and for the solicitors fees... None of this for me. One thing they have I've rme, when I was in teens and underage my dad's company got into difficulties and to stop the gov taking our family home it got signed to my name as my brother was too old, 4 years ago they suddenly started harassing me to sign the land back to them or disown me, I was like if u are ready to disown me why would I give you the land back what's stopping you disowning me when I sign it back, result was they said don't ever contact us again if you are lucky you get a funeral invite one day.. Over the time I made contact to check on them and eventually we were back on speaking terms but I have and won't forget this, I have never caused them anything,even 2 days ago whe. I got upset at them taking 189k loan out for my brother my mum claimed I stole her naked of her jewellery, I was 17 when I left home and took a ring that was too small for my mum and a necklace that reminded me of her and a t shirt of my dad's, I didn't know if I was ever going to see them and all I took was rucksack with my things beside this, no cash from their wallets or anything else of theirs. It took them 8 years to visit me and that too got thrown at me, how I should have paid for their flights even I was not working and also had a baby. They babysit my brothers childreb every week, take them to doctors, they are sometimes at my parents place 7 days in row, go home for one then back again etc. The loan, my brother and his wife work, 2 kids, business that does well, new apartment bought into 8 years ago, for some reason they have asked my parents to take a loan out for a new build for them, my situation, my husband works full time I'm stay at home mum and have 4 little kids, I would like to start to build an extension but we are waiting until our car loan ends in 2 years,I have never even thought to ask my parents to take a loan out for me, especially nearly 200k when they have no savings and they are not the best in looking after their health.

I am really disappointed my parents didn't even involve me in their plan, yes it's their money but they know how I feel about the past, they tell me to get over it or I make it up but the facts are, they have held my brothers hand through his life, paid for him to set up his business, get a car, driving licence, go to uni which he failed after 8 years etc. None of this for me, the house loan is a joke on the paper my brother is a perfect candidate for a mortgage what is he up to. Anyways, am I being unreasonable, my mum tells me to get some help, as an insult and my father said its none of my business. My father can say that yes but he has made the gap between me and my brother even bigger. (Oh my brother 4 years ago when I refused to sign over the land, also told me that no one in this world cares about me, I should go crawl back under a rock, he dosent care where I am or what do I do and poked a few jokes over my disabled daughter and told me my husband will divorce me, that my husband controls me etc-could not be more wrong anyone who knows us laughs how my husband is "under my slipper", he dosent mind :), what he said about my child was unforgivable and uncalled for, still, he has not even attempted to say sorry for 4 years, my parents said he is too busy working and stressed and for me to let it go.

I sent both my parents a message in a neutral tone and not in a stroppy way, to buy me out of half of the land they want back, so they can pass it on and not worry I steal my brothers part, the land is originally from my dad's grandparents. They live in a house on that land, get rental from the fields but use it as if I get something out of it, even the reason for the loan they said its a house for your brother as he got nothing from us, you have a house in.. - I'm like hold on, my brother gets a house, you live for free in a house get income from the fields, I'm expected to share the land one day but my brother keeps his house, oh and they have put land from my other grandma on my brothers name.

Sorry for the messy wall of text, if anyone made any sense out of it.. Am I wrong to feel wronged and upset? I have never asked them for anything, they never offered things that my brother got, I just at the time listened my mum cry because to support my brother to pay for his car, apartment and uni fees they went short on money, even I was unemployed my husband loaned them, latest one was perhaps 6 months ago to help them carry over to payday.

That is a long walk of text that doesn't really make as much sense as you'd intended

Firstly you own the land the family home is on and haven't signed 'it back' so effectively you have been given huge assets already? Whether intentionally or not. You can check details if you don't have any, on Land registry if U.K. - don't know how to do that of is different countries.

Secondly £18,900 loan for a house? Did you mean £189,000? (And what was that loan against? They don't own land their house is on, so I wonder what the collateral is.) Regardless if it's their money, it's their money to loan as they choose. It sounds like they have additional money available and are helping their son out.

You feel their favour your brother. It sounds like they do. It sounds like he had more support and financial gifts as an adult than you did. There's nothing that can done about that, life and families can be unfair sometimes and you don't have a close relationship with your parents, unlike your brother, for whatever reason.

So, there's nothing you can do regarding their loan to your brother. The email wasn't meant for you to read. You saying it's a loan, there's obvs some expectation of repayment, maybe they provide a better mortgage rate than the banks to for bother and interest rate generated will be extra income for them later in life.

Whilst your parents are still alive and/ even after then, via a will, they are at liberty to dispose of or loan their assets as they wish.

Ah, re-reading your OP again... (gosh it is hard to read)

Both of you have land in your names from them/ grandma

They have taken the loan out to purchase a house. Do you mean a mortgage loan on the house in which case it will remain in your parents name - unless they have made alternative legal arrangements- to which there'd be anti laundering checks if U.K and solicitors involved for sure.

Regardless, it's still their money. Once you were both 18, it's entirely up to your parents if they choose to financially support which, or any, of their adult children

It's hurtful and doesn't seem fair to treat your children inequitably - especially as you feel your financial situation has more hardship- but to be fair, we don't know their side of the ins and outs of "yours and their", or "his and their" relationships. There's so many different aspects that could have affected that.

It's not right and hurtful but they are allowed to help one child out over the other, it's their money.

You stole from them when you left (doesnt matter if it was old or small jewellry, wasnt yours). You then refused to sign their land back to them yet you blame them for being upset about this and distancing you even more? Your brother shouldnt have said those things to you but i can understand him being angry at you doing that to your parents.

Just go no contact with all of them, you get nothing out of the relationships anyway. You'll be happier and stress free.

go non contact, keep the land

You'll never change the way your dp's are.
I actually feel sorry for your db. He can't have much self respect imo.
As for the land, if they signed it over to you but they still get the benefit then they can't really complain. They did it to evade tax or losing it I assume.
In your situation I would go low contact and concentrate on your own life.

The land on my name from great grandparents was first passed onto my dad, who put it on my name when I was 16 and my brother was 21,only to save the government taking it, as his business went bankrupt and there was a government money involved, I remember the day I didn't want it but he made me go to the solicitors , over if I don't do it they will loose everything . It wasn't given to me as inheritance, its just legally on my name since then but they live there and get rental income from the fields, I have always known if they pass I will go half with my brother. I don't know what happened 4 years ago when they suddenly started saying things like I'm planning to steal the land from my brother and if I don't sign it over they will disown me, which they did-ny first thought was what's stopping them disowning me when I sign the land over and just sign it over to my brother? Nothing, neither have they ever mentioned if my brother will go half with the land from other grandma. Now my parents have taken out 189 000 loan to buy my brother a new build. Since I was 17 when I left, im now 33, I didn't realise how my mum saw me taking pieces of jewellery that reminded me of her, the ring she gave me herself it was small for her, but regardless I have told her I will post them back I have never worn them they have been sitting in a box with my marriage and engagement rings.

So the land their house is on and fields from which they get rental income is owned by you, if it's in your legal name. So no it won't go to your brother when they pass as they have no legal right to leave it to him as it is not theirs.
I am curious how they can get a mortgage or loan without any assets or collateral against the loan.

You said your brother was also give some land? Was it different land?

What country is this?
There will surely be some legal register of who owns what land?

Lock ye to avoid loosing it, my brother had had situations with finances, my dad is very unreliable, he has no savings and he is 12 years from retirement, I don't even know how he managed to get this loan, through the years my parents have barely afforded to keep up with my brothers requests, like for them to lease a car for him, pay for his apartment, for his uni fees, when they have been financially stuck we have lent them money even we are 1 income family. My dad's job will terminate in the end of this month, I sent my mum a present to cheer her up thinking there will be hard times ahead as my dad is the breadwinner, I have kept some money aside just in case they need it and them boom by na accident I read agreement for house purchase loan, I feel like an idiot,they let me worry when they get up to this without telling me.

Yes I'm from another country I moved when I was 17. Just in case I have confused you all:I got land that was transferred to me to avoid government taking it when I was 16, my parents have always told me to half it with my brother once they pass, they currently live there and get rental income from it. My brother has land in another place from my parents I don't know if this will be halved and now 189000 house about the be purchased by my parents.

You're best keeping hold of the land and then see how things pan out.
Do you think your parents may be using the land as collateral for the loan?
If so this could cause problems in the future if your db defaults on the payments.

It's your land. When your parents pass you don't have to half it with your brother. He won't be giving you half of his will he?

You don't even have to let your parents live there.

Don't give him half, don't save money for your parents in case they need it. Leave them to it.

Go low contact. Take financial advice about the land to protect yourself.

Get some counselling for yourself.

If they asked me to sign over the land in a casual manner under makes things easier for them they don't need my signature, I would have been fine, but when they came at me 4 years ago accusing me in planning to sell it, steal it and threaten to disown me out of the blue, no surprise I am suspicious when I'm suddenly being bullied to do something. I got no plans to do anything with this land, my parents live there and get bit of income from it, but they are sure muddling the waters with deals with my brother that they keep hidden from me. They lie so easily to me I don't know what to believe from them anymore. Last week they said my dad's job is going and they don't know what's going to happen next, I sent my mum Nintendo with animal crossing as she in the past said she kinda likes it but didn't have funds, as my children and at times myself play it I thought perhaps we can keep more in touch and it would cheer her up.. She just paid 3000eur 2 days ago in solicitors fees and there I am thinking she can't afford 255eur console

You shouldn’t have read the email. It might have come up on an old phone, but you still had the choice to read it.
The situation doesn’t sound particularly fair, however it seems like your parents will continue to do things like this, and seeing such information in an email will only fuel how you already feel

You need two things:
An independent solicitor to advise you on the land and your rights to rental income/selling options
Some therapy to help you deal with your relationship with your family which is clearly not healthy and isn't doing your, or your children any favours.

Op I'm not sure if you have the strength for this option but I would not sign it over to them. Listen op, they haven't just treated you unfairly your entire life they have emotionally abused you. They have raised you as the black sheep, scapegoat in the family. And signing the land to you was them using you. They have no relationship with you, so what do you have to lose? Keep the land and secure your future. They have no intention of doing anything to help you, no loans, no support nothing. So do what suits YOU best. And how fucking dare they insult your dd. For that alone, keep the land for her future.

Your family sound toxic and there is undoubtedly a golden child/ scapegoat scenario going on.

You do sound like you have been a bit difficult at times but I can see why.

I get the feeling this is not in the UK (you can't have land in your name until you are 18 in the UK) and perhaps a different culture (one that reveres sons but not daughters). Am I right? If so your parents may feel there is nothing wrong with what they are doing as it's "just the way it is".

Posters are right that it's their money and their decision to give/loan money to your brother, who sounds pretty vile. (If I'm interpreting correctly your parents had to pay off people he committed crimes against? ) That doesn't make it morally right or fair of course.

If I were you I would hang onto the land because I suspect it's all you are ever going to get from your parents. They sound terrible with money so if you sign it back they could easily lose it anyway. Or they could decide to leave it all to your brother and you'd get nothing. At best you'd be left half of it but after everything else your brother has had it may be fair for you to think it shouldn't have to be shared.

What's the worst that can happen? They disown you? To be honest it can't really get much worse considering how they treat you anyway. In my experience parents like this often end up crawling to the scapegoat child for help towards the end of their lives because the golden child is too spoilt, selfish and feckless to deal with it. This happened in my husband's family. All the money and effort was poured into the youngest brother (who is a total twat in my view) but when they needed nursing care and practical help brother always had an excuse and my husband did it all.

NeilBuchananisBanksy is absolutely correct.

Keep the land and protect your interests. Your parents have no leverage, they signed the land over to avoid paying a government debt, you now hold all the cards. You could charge them rent, claim the rent they collect or evict them if you chose to, which I'm sure they are aware of. Escalating things would not calm the situation but it's important you understand you are not powerless here.

I don't regret reading it, it just opened my eyes that they don't consider me close enough to be honest with me, the reason why my old phone was logged in my dad's email is I have helped him with his work for over a decade, sent emails out when he was driving I would be typing, booked his flights, done the checkins, sort of like be a PA on call. Unless he asks I don't read his emails it's just that time notification came up about house purchase agreement and I'm like hold on, you just told me you will loose your job in 3 weeks and my mum said she had lost an income, on an attached statement she still had it. As mentioned I will be trying to find out if they have used that land as collateral, but as for our relationship, such a mess.

It has suddenly struck me that the reason they wanted the land back 4 years ago was because your brother asked for money for a new build and they planned to sell the land/ part of it or use it as collateral. If so the land and its value would have disappeared down your brother's greedy gullet and you'd never see anything of it. You were dead right not to sign it back.

Honey heh, my culture a such dosent place son's above daughters but my dad does, we have 4 girls, my dad has told me to pass on a message to my husband to man up and have a son.i noticed difference in treatment already when we were children and at 17 I moved out when my dad got physical with me when he found out I had a boyfriend,took my ring off me that my boyfriend had gifted me who is now my husband and father of my children. My mum has even said in the past don't bother coming back when I was 18 planning to visit, over 17 years when I have been away they have come to see my family 3x for 2 weeks staying at our home, my mum said last year if I was a decent child I would have paid for their flights and supposedly i was the worst child when I was small, messiest ever. I'm starting to become immune to it but it's weird, part of me is still trying to find a way to get along with them and have relationship with my parents but they are making it so hard. I sent them both message yesterday I wish they had it discusssed it with me not to get my permission yes their money but just to make me feel included in their family. They have read the messages and not replied, what now? Do I not bother contacting them again?

Honey you are right, my brother was asking my parents to buy him a house 7 years ago, he "settled" for brand spanking new apartment, he still has his apartment but he and his wife say its too small need a house, which my parents are giving a hand with, house is set to be completed this month.

Ultimately it’s their money and their choice. And from their point of view you won’t sign back land, and took jewellery; regardless of whether it fit your mum or not.

Quite simply you need to go low or no contact and go and see a solicitor with any papers you have about the land and take whatever you can that's rightfully yours. Sounds like they should pay you rent for living there and if they're getting rent paid to them by other tenants then by rights that should come to you.

Make this legal, its black and white that way. The emotions you will have to work out yourself over time.

What good things do you get from your relationship with your parents and db?
How is your life enhanced?

If your parents only ever criticise you, your family and your choices in life then I think you need to have minimal contact.

My dm is difficult and now in my 60's she still manages to crush me at times.
Don't be me.

Set your boundaries now.

Overtherainbow the ring my mum gave me as it become too small for her, 2 necklaces, sort of argos quality necklaces it wasn't jewelry littered with diamonds, i haven't tried to make money off them. Not to get petty but I left home at 17,my parents never forwarded me child benefit payments even I literally left penniless to another country. CB in my homeland is up to 19, I didn't mind, i thought they needed it wasn't going hungry.