Parents taking out a loan for a sibling

[Belice9222]

Hey all, I found out by an accident( my father has asked me to check his email in the past and I was still logged onto his email in an old phone I switched on), so a popup came that the solicitors fees need to be paid for and they are set to purchase a house for 18900,my parents claim my brother will pay for the loan payments, even my father has instructed my mother having to pay 3k for the admin fees for the loan. We have had many arguments in the past over them preferring my brother, quick back story- I moved out to another country at 17, they did already back then more for my brother, he didn't do well in one school he got sent to another, I got put into the school he left I was bullied by the teachers and when I asked to move to my granny in another town my mum said no we don't have money, my parents paid for 8 years of uni for my brother, for his apartment in the uni city, it was privately rented not student accommodation that wasn't good enough, paid for his driving licence, leased a cars for him he never took bus or train, my brother has messed up a few times my parents have had to pay victim off and for the solicitors fees... None of this for me. One thing they have I've rme, when I was in teens and underage my dad's company got into difficulties and to stop the gov taking our family home it got signed to my name as my brother was too old, 4 years ago they suddenly started harassing me to sign the land back to them or disown me, I was like if u are ready to disown me why would I give you the land back what's stopping you disowning me when I sign it back, result was they said don't ever contact us again if you are lucky you get a funeral invite one day.. Over the time I made contact to check on them and eventually we were back on speaking terms but I have and won't forget this, I have never caused them anything,even 2 days ago whe. I got upset at them taking 189k loan out for my brother my mum claimed I stole her naked of her jewellery, I was 17 when I left home and took a ring that was too small for my mum and a necklace that reminded me of her and a t shirt of my dad's, I didn't know if I was ever going to see them and all I took was rucksack with my things beside this, no cash from their wallets or anything else of theirs. It took them 8 years to visit me and that too got thrown at me, how I should have paid for their flights even I was not working and also had a baby. They babysit my brothers childreb every week, take them to doctors, they are sometimes at my parents place 7 days in row, go home for one then back again etc. The loan, my brother and his wife work, 2 kids, business that does well, new apartment bought into 8 years ago, for some reason they have asked my parents to take a loan out for a new build for them, my situation, my husband works full time I'm stay at home mum and have 4 little kids, I would like to start to build an extension but we are waiting until our car loan ends in 2 years,I have never even thought to ask my parents to take a loan out for me, especially nearly 200k when they have no savings and they are not the best in looking after their health.

I am really disappointed my parents didn't even involve me in their plan, yes it's their money but they know how I feel about the past, they tell me to get over it or I make it up but the facts are, they have held my brothers hand through his life, paid for him to set up his business, get a car, driving licence, go to uni which he failed after 8 years etc. None of this for me, the house loan is a joke on the paper my brother is a perfect candidate for a mortgage what is he up to. Anyways, am I being unreasonable, my mum tells me to get some help, as an insult and my father said its none of my business. My father can say that yes but he has made the gap between me and my brother even bigger. (Oh my brother 4 years ago when I refused to sign over the land, also told me that no one in this world cares about me, I should go crawl back under a rock, he dosent care where I am or what do I do and poked a few jokes over my disabled daughter and told me my husband will divorce me, that my husband controls me etc-could not be more wrong anyone who knows us laughs how my husband is "under my slipper", he dosent mind :), what he said about my child was unforgivable and uncalled for, still, he has not even attempted to say sorry for 4 years, my parents said he is too busy working and stressed and for me to let it go.

I sent both my parents a message in a neutral tone and not in a stroppy way, to buy me out of half of the land they want back, so they can pass it on and not worry I steal my brothers part, the land is originally from my dad's grandparents. They live in a house on that land, get rental from the fields but use it as if I get something out of it, even the reason for the loan they said its a house for your brother as he got nothing from us, you have a house in.. - I'm like hold on, my brother gets a house, you live for free in a house get income from the fields, I'm expected to share the land one day but my brother keeps his house, oh and they have put land from my other grandma on my brothers name.

Sorry for the messy wall of text, if anyone made any sense out of it.. Am I wrong to feel wronged and upset? I have never asked them for anything, they never offered things that my brother got, I just at the time listened my mum cry because to support my brother to pay for his car, apartment and uni fees they went short on money, even I was unemployed my husband loaned them, latest one was perhaps 6 months ago to help them carry over to payday.

However I don't think holding on to the land is doing her any good mentally, she's looking for something from her parents that unfortunately she isn't going to get

She's never going to get anything from them. So at the very least she should keep the land.
Personally I'd evict them and sell it. They deserve it.

I think the land is worth about 400k?, the house, no idea, they live on the country side but there is no high demand for houses and some properties are as little as 40k. The land my brother got from other grandma that my mum passed to him, is worth likely more as they are near 2nd biggest city in an area where house prices are lowest 500k to over a million,I don't expect to see anything from there and for the last 4 years I have had no doubt as soon I would sign the land over I would not hear from them, after they disowned me so easily last time, my mom never asked how I am, at one point I was in hospital with suspected sepsis and my mum didn't call or text me to ask how I am, how are the kids doing etc, it was me who just kept sending pictures without them asking for them to their email addresses for 3 years.

People who say it's morally my dad's, don't you think it's not right then to morally just use your child when convenient? I feel.. Used? If my dad had taken moral and legal responsibility for his actions he would not have had by now nearly 500k income from field rentals that I have not asked and not had any share in and live for mortgage and rent free. If the house got taken then they would not be buying my brother a house but paying for their own, so I consider them more lucky in that sense.
I don't think going halves, me being also still their child is being unreasonable or greedy?

Angie as much as I am not interested in the land I don't want to shoot my own kids in the foot, I can take their insults and I am about to give up trying to please them, if they asked me to sign over the land over 5 years ago I would have done it in an instant, my alarm bells started ringing when they starting accusing me, insulting my husband and even my disabled child wasn't off the limits and cherry on the top was ultimatum, you either sign it or we don't want to ever hear from you,it was 5 o clock in the morning I got woken up by text from my brother word by word, you think you are important but no one cares about you, no one is interested where you are, what do you do, do what you are told.

Tbh, you stole jewellery and later, land from them. Whether the latter was illegal or just immoral I don't know. But in effect, that's what happened.

They do sound like they favour your brother, yes.

It seems to me you're all only interested in money. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but you're behaving in a way that you're complaining they're behaving in if that makes sense.
The land is legally yours, but all this 'going halves' coming from you, is pretty unpleasant, is it really for you to decide on the division? In IMO, and I'm only going from what you've written here, none of you come up smelling of roses.

But her parents made her take ownership of the land, she didn't want that. They did it for their own sakes as well, as I understand it, because they were in debt. So how is that stealing?

Tbh, you stole jewellery and later, land from them. Whether the latter was illegal or just immoral I don't know. But in effect, that's what happened

On what planet is an adult forcing a child to have land signed over to them so the adult can avoid their creditors, then the adult spending years living on that land and earning huge money from it...the kid stealing their land?
Honestly, I often wonder what is wrong with some MNers, but this takes the fucking biscuit. Can you not read or are you hard of thinking? Or both?

Not really understood any of that

However. Go non contact. Cut the hurt. Stop letting them hurt you this way

But keep the land. It’s the only real thing you’ve gotten from them.

Feminist, I don't know if you have read all previous posts, I have already apologised to my mum and will be posting the ring and necklaces back to her shortly, for me they were once sentimental value, not anymore, when she visited me some years ago she saw them but didn't ask for them back, as at the time i was showing her my wedding ring from the box her items were also in. I got no problem returning them I don't wear jewellery anyway hence why my wedding rings sits in a box :) . As I mentioned earlier if we were to get down to petty stuff, I could ask what happened to my CB that went on for 2 years when I wasn't living at their home.

You say I stole the land.. How? If you gifted something to someone and then change your mind 17 years later, would you say they stole the present from you?

Its difficult to help you without knowing the legal system of the country the land is in. However you need to get the document you signed for your mum to sign on your behalf destroyed. Otherwise they can simply take you to the cleaners at any point. Do not rely on her to stop using it - she won't. Almost certainly it is going to be used to bankroll this house purchase and you need to stop that. Can you out the land in your husbands name so that they would need his signatory ? You need to take action fast.

Owl thanks you gave me something to consider if things get worse, perhaps put it on one of my childrens name. This would change it instantly yes and cancel the document that my mum has, its in their house I got no access to it

OP, you really need some legal advice regarding this land that was signed over to you.
There is a possibility, given that you've said that your mum has a document to say that she can sign things in your name.
I'm no expert on these matters but I would be concerned that your parents might accrue debt , in your name, and the land may be being used as collateral.
Please seek professional advice.

I would seek advice as they definitely should not be getting rental income in your land. You could be liable for a very big tax bill if this I'd found out.

You are all right, it's time to contact a solicitor, when I signed it at 18 we got along and I didn't think they would use it against me, a lot has changed since then and then having that undated contract might be a ticking bomb. Perhaps I should add my husband as the owner, not put it fully on his name but if they got up to something his signature would be also needed? Of course there is a risk marriages turn sour, we been going strong for 17 years and if I had to make a choice who do I trust, its hands down my husband, he is selfless when it comes to me and the kids

Bp thanks for pointing that out and yes, just looked it up, in my homeland there is 25 percent income tax rate including from renting fields out, I have no idea if they are or have been paying it. I just sent an email to the solicitors too see what their advice is. Thanks for all the advice, don't think I will be selling the land yet, I don't have the heart to do it, tiny bit of me hopes perhaps one day we will be on better terms, but adding my husband as the coowner would stop at least any loans being taken out on my name.

OP, I don't think you should add other people to the land you legally own, not your DC, DH or anyone else, leave it be. Just keep it and get advice re all the issues that are being raised.

Adding people later on won't ameliorate tax you might owe in your name over a defined period. Don't worry about all of this but do get sensible legal advice. Ultimately if you own the land and they have been collecting rent not paying taxes on your behalf, then you may benefit from anything that shows they owe you & collected £X money that is liable at 25% for tax.

Don't do anything but what your solicitor suggests in your own best interests. Don't use a solicitor that knows your DH...
(Marriages do break up after 17+ years )

Just get advice

Collecting and keeping rent in your behalf!!!

You do know that legally you own it. Or they wouldn't have it now. Don't talk about it to solicitor that they did it to avoid gov taking it as that's partly to a crime solicitor might have to report, just that they signed it over to you and have managed it for you.... but not giving you details as you were 16? at the time....

Of course I can read. 🙄 She refused to give it back. As I said...legally may not be stealing but morally another matter. And your OP said they wanted it in your name to avoid it getting taken, not that they were giving it to you. They put it in your name, that's all.

Child benefit goes to parent always, not to child necessarily. It would be nice to pass it on for sure, but it was never yours so hardly the same issue.

They favor your brother and that's wrong, but you have done wrong, also. Refusing to sign the land back over to them and taking jewelry are not the acts of a loving daughter.

Your relationship is extremely dysfunctional on both sides--they favor your brother and you punish them by taking what is theirs. My recommendations would be for you to stay out of your parent's lives and vice versa. You are both toxic to each other.

This is quite confusing.

Does your brother still own the other land, as in are you sure?

I’m not sure they gifted it to you, but if you say they did, they did, but it does read like they did it simply to protect it, it wasn’t them gifting it to you. It seems quite clear that morally it wasn’t a gift (although legally they’d have to phrase it that way)

The brother having land is more confusing, does he own it still or did he sign it back to them? Why are your parents taking out such a small loan when he can borrow against land worth so much more?

This entire thing is bizarre. DF signs over hugely valuable land to DD on a “temporary” basis and then proceeds to alienate her and sour relations?! It makes no sense. If this is real then he’s mindbogglingly idiotic and short sighted. Way to cut your entire head off to spite your face.

I don't know what people are getting upset about. Parents gifted son land too. Parents would have lost this particular land but instead legally transferred ownership to OP who is now liable for earnings in it , tax etc and maybe at all the disadvantage liability and none of the benefit bc her parents have played puppetry with her

She has enabled her parents to keep their home they'd have lost and hasn't interfered but does actually own it but had no control or choice in it. And she may have financial liability (owed in her name) because of it. That's why she needs legal advice. She'd be daft to risk suddenly owing tax or money she never collected or received and then to sign it back..., She feels treated unfairly betwee bc we bro and her but also her parents used her to protect something they'd have lost and been homeless without. It's not a moral question as parents normally did the wrong moral thing to their benefit at the time. Have t paid rent haven't thanked her and yet are causing subterfuge and bullying when it no longer suits them, she had all the risk and none of the benefits

She has to seek legal advice and take it in her own interests and stop trying to think she ought give the benefits and legal ownership to someone else, which she may regret later on when she gets hit with bills

From age 16 to 30 that's 14 years of liability for tax etc and her parents collected rent on her land without sharing anything with her.

Land that without her that would no longer own and would have lost their home from.

You could have a hefty tax bill coming your way as I doubt your parents have paid tax. If they haven't used your signature to sign the land back to themselves already. Glad you are going to be proactive to find out what is happening.

Dont sign that land over op, do not give ypur brother any.
It’s yours.