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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who pays care home fees for your PIL/DP?

124 replies

Brightandlight · 03/03/2021 20:46

DH and I have been discussing plans for the coming tax year (he’s an accountant, so a forward planner). I mentioned our plans once school fees are paid soon etc and he countered with “well, we’ll probably have care home fees then”. He’s means for his mother!!

I’m a bit astonished, as I’ve never thought about paying for anyone’s elderly care. My own DP still run their own business despite being well past retirement age. They could pay for their own nursing care if needed.

How do residential care home fees work for your PIL or DM/DF?

MIL’s house is worth approx £300k, which would cover about 5 years of private residential care. Once that’s spent, who covers the fees then? She doesn’t have much in the way of savings/pension etc.

I get on fine with MIL. But we also don’t have the kind of relationship where she’d move in with us or we’d provide physical care ourself. Actually she lives 3 hours away, so it’s not practical to support carers in her house.

OP posts:
TippledPink · 04/03/2021 10:42

@Pintsizedblondie197 Basically all that person's income except for approximately £25 a week is taken to pay toward the care home, the LA covers the rest. If there are no homes available without a top up, you can request a top up disregard if there is no one able to cover the top up. Or if there is a good argument as to why the home with the top up is more suited rather than the home with no top up.

If someone has lived in a home with a top up paying privately and then their funds run out, and there is no one to pay the top up, you could argue that it would be detrimental to that person to move and the top up may be disregarded. LA's are reluctant to move people in this situation. I advise just kicking up a fuss, or involve the MP, they always have way too much clout when they get involved!

Serin · 04/03/2021 10:51

@forinborin

I would pay even for my very low contact ex-MIL, family always comes first. Would not like to have my children's grandmother to spend the last few years of her life in misery. But I am not British, there is a strong cultural difference here.
What do you mean by "family come first", "but then I'm not British" Did you mean to be so rude.
Original poster
Brightandlight · 04/03/2021 10:53

@sanfranfibber no, not my thread. We’ve always had medical insurance, so hopefully wouldn’t need anyone else to pay for us etc.

OP posts:
DinosaurPantz · 04/03/2021 10:54

I guess it depends on each situation. For my grandad, his retirement ££ paid for his home and then once he passed, any let over money from selling his home that hadn’t been evenly distributed as per his will paid off any left over fees.

forinborin · 04/03/2021 10:58

I did not mean to be rude. I meant that it is completely impossible for me even to think "eh, well, their own problem, should have saved earlier" about infirm elderly relatives, for cultural reasons. As well as impossible to think that my children will one day think like that about me - "hey mum, thanks for all, on your own now, bye!"

RandomLondoner · 04/03/2021 11:06

What do you mean by "family come first", "but then I'm not British"
Did you mean to be so rude.

In most of the world, "family" is what exists instead of a benefits system. In some places people have children explicitly so they will be provided for in old age, and pity the childless for their future poverty.

NotAnotherUserNumber · 04/03/2021 11:07

Only a small percentage of older people go into care homes, so it seems odd that your husband is assuming that his mother will do this, unless there are specific medical reasons that make it likely.

saraclara · 04/03/2021 11:33

One should always think ahead about possible care costs. As I said above, both my mum (massive stroke) and my MIL (dementia) are in care facilities. And again, against the odds, both long term. My mum had been there for 12 years, my MIL for 7.

I'm making sure I help my adult children now, because if I follow my older generations path, they'll have no inheritance.

thinkhorsesnotzebra · 04/03/2021 11:56

My Grandmother is currently in a home, I don't know exactly how much it costs but I know that it is paid using the following sources:

Her state pension
Her private pension (she was a factory worker so it is a decent pension but not a high income)
50% of my Grandfather's pension (same factory but he died 30 years ago so as his widow she is paid half his pension)
Rental income from her house (3 bed semi NW England)

All of this does still not cover the costs and so the remaining amount is set as a charge against her house that will be collected upon the sale of the house.

Renting out the house makes far more sense than selling and only having the finite profit from said sale to pay for care and then having to find another way to pay the bill.

AnnaSW1 · 04/03/2021 11:58

As a side point, It is worth bearing in mind that the average life expectancy for someone once they enter a care home is just over two years. A person's property will in most cases cover that cost.

Newkitchen123 · 04/03/2021 11:59

@Eviethyme

I wouldn't be paying for any care fees it's expensive!!!! When my mum gets old ill look after her in my own home But I only have a mum, no PIL and no dad so it's easier to just care for her myself and I would pay for her care fees if needed but that's only because I don't have anyone else to worry about as it's just me my husband my children and my mum
If I could have looked after my dad either in my home or his, I would have done it in a heart beat. But he needed more care than I was physically able to give. It's often not as simple as that
Springsnake · 04/03/2021 12:04

My mum is in a car home ,she is using her savings and her house was sold to pay for it .£1600 a week ...when the money runs out the la will pay ..I checked before she went in ,I made sure I found a home that the la would agree to fund when money ran out .
Not as nice as some homes ,granted ..but she didn’t need an on site cinema or free bar ...
So at least she won’t have to move again .and she’s warm and well fed and nice staff to care for her

HelloSunshine11 · 04/03/2021 12:09

This report makes fascinating reading about the length of care home stays and related costs. A bit out of date now but still useful. eprints.lse.ac.uk/33895/1/dp2769.pdf

Original poster
Brightandlight · 04/03/2021 12:21

Thanks for sharing the report @HelloSunshine11 Interesting reading

OP posts:
Hubstar · 04/03/2021 13:17

My grandfather was a multi millionaire with tons of properties

However. His care was an eye watering amount. Over £10000 a month.

His assets were used and he lived quite a long time in care. I think around 11 years. So it was all used up. His last year we had to put in a claim as his estate had all been eaten up

Don’t quote me on it all though. This was a while ago and I was poorly at the time

wonkylegs · 04/03/2021 13:22

We pay my mums care home fees out of her finances and ultimately the sale of her house.
My inlaws will pay from their estate.
There is no way we could pay for parents on top of the costs of children / life etc my kids are still only small.

YoniAndGuy · 04/03/2021 13:28

Well for a start there would be no point in discussing anything that didn't start with - firstly, her home goes to pay for care.

Not doing that is just giving yourself an extra tax bill - no point at all.

After that, I'd be digging my heels in big time. All you would be doing, effectively, is trickling the family money up instead of down. YOUR children would be the ones eventually seeing less funds for your own care, or less family money available for all sorts of other things.

I would not be agreeing to divert assets and asupport from my children for a MIL who wouldn't do the same for her child even at 16 and has proven herself a leech before. No way.

Also, it is so much money. What happens when she is settled in the lovely home which costs ££ and the house money runs out and it's trembling lip time from MIL and oh we can't make her move? How much is that worth? Because then she could live for years - do you spend all the uni funds, all the savings, deplete your own security and then eventually give up and bingo, she has to move to the cheaper home anyway? - so it's just... wasted?

That isn't a scenario I would allow to develop and I would be a complete tiger about putting my children first.

Home that council will agree to fund, her home pays for it. The end.

2021optimist · 04/03/2021 13:36

You can also buy an annuity type product that guarantees to pay a set amount (eg the difference between the person's pension and care home fees). It's a lot of cash though. We've been quoted approx £320k for someone in early 80s in a £1600 pw home.

womaninatightspot · 04/03/2021 13:42

Some of the nicer homes do allow you to stay on as council funded if your assets run out once you've been there for 3 years + that was the deal for my great uncle although he'd of had to move out the sea view room and round the back. He only lasted six months though.

womaninatightspot · 04/03/2021 13:47

@Hubstar

My grandfather was a multi millionaire with tons of properties

However. His care was an eye watering amount. Over £10000 a month.

His assets were used and he lived quite a long time in care. I think around 11 years. So it was all used up. His last year we had to put in a claim as his estate had all been eaten up

Don’t quote me on it all though. This was a while ago and I was poorly at the time

10K a month crikey. I know someone rich who in planning for his old age has bought a spacious ground floor apartment with no steps to get in and a two bed flat upstairs in case he and his wife need carers in the future. 400K for a just in case flat that sits empty.
zingally · 04/03/2021 13:49

My grandma went into a specialist home for people with dementia. Granted, this was the better part of 20 years ago now, and even then, I'm pretty sure it was about £1000 a week. It was funded from her savings and the sale of her house. My parents didn't put anything towards it. She lived there just a bit less than 3 years IIRC.

Nitgel · 04/03/2021 13:58

i can understand 10k a month as I said above mil's nursing home is a little over 5k and it's a lovely home but nothing over and above what is needed.

Maldives2006 · 04/03/2021 14:05

@forinborin

Do you think people in care homes are there because their families don’t care or love them. This is real life not an episode of Eastenders with the “Family comes first” ?

Geriatric care is exhausting, hard, back breaking and not given the thought it deserves. If you’re not trained in caring and nursing an older person you shouldn’t be doing it. Also taking into account a person is likely going to be in their 80’s when needing care. Meaning their children are likely to be in their 50’s at least with daily bills to pay and children to support. Everyone had to take responsibility for their old age.

RB68 · 04/03/2021 14:19

You are not required to pay but maybe set up savings for ALL parents and be clear thats what its for to him and you. The house would not be used unless no one else living in it as a dependent or co owner of your PIL. Depending on where you are in the country will depend on the level of savings you are allowed before you have to contribute to fees (in Wales its higher). However I would suggest looking at what your money pays for as well - 1800 to 2k per week for a high end outside of London.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 04/03/2021 14:31

@forinborin, if you’d ever had to look after anyone with dementia past the early stages, you might change your tune. Unless you’ve lived with it, 24/7, it’s almost impossible to understand how stressful and exhausting it can be. I know dh and I were blithely clueless at first.

All too often, dementia is not just a case of a nice old thing gently getting more forgetful. Even if they were a very nice old thing before.