Who pays care home fees for your PIL/DP?

[Brightandlight]

DH and I have been discussing plans for the coming tax year (he’s an accountant, so a forward planner). I mentioned our plans once school fees are paid soon etc and he countered with “well, we’ll probably have care home fees then”. He’s means for his mother!!

I’m a bit astonished, as I’ve never thought about paying for anyone’s elderly care. My own DP still run their own business despite being well past retirement age. They could pay for their own nursing care if needed.

How do residential care home fees work for your PIL or DM/DF?

MIL’s house is worth approx £300k, which would cover about 5 years of private residential care. Once that’s spent, who covers the fees then? She doesn’t have much in the way of savings/pension etc.

I get on fine with MIL. But we also don’t have the kind of relationship where she’d move in with us or we’d provide physical care ourself. Actually she lives 3 hours away, so it’s not practical to support carers in her house.

I guess it depends on age and health doesn’t it.
The average life expectancy on admission to a nursing home is only a year approx ..I don’t have the stats for care home though.

My dad had almost a year in a care home after mum died. He self funded from the house money. We chose the right home not based on cost.

If he had run out of money we would have to apply to soc services for funding. You can’t tell if your home would be funded as they charge different rates to LA. However if they come back with “ he’ll have to move it’s too expensive “ you then get in touch with age uk etc and appeal based on move being detrimental to health.

Actually dad had dementia. Had he continued in care and we had to move him ( or a move to nursing home was needed ) I suspect his dementia would be so far on that he may not really have been affected by it 😢

Bet the care home were Bril especially re end of life care. Always check they’ll keep dying residents if possible

It depends on how long they would be in cars really. My SM is in a care home and at the moment the bill is mounting up - currently at around £75k but it can't be paid until their house is sold and my DF doesn't want to sell it yet (he's living with my brother but is adamant he's going to get better and go home but it's very unlikely). It's a private care home- I'm not sure what happens if the invoice exceeds the cost of the value of the house once sold. I guess we will pay the difference.

I wouldn’t necessarily assume the house would need to be sold to pay for care home fees. It depends what’s wrong / how terminal / how quickly someone needs care. Horrible topic I know but when my Mum had terminal bowel cancer she went downhill super quickly (6 weeks until she was bedbound and needed hospice care) so no time to sell her house or pay for care etc. Continuing healthcare assessed her and she went into an NHS funded nursing home. Her mortgage free self owned home wasn’t touched at all. It completely depends on the circumstances.

I would just add, having looked at so many care homes over the years (for DM, FiL and an old aunt of dh) I would emphatically say that the most expensive are not necessarily the best. In fact the vibe I received was sometimes the opposite - you could almost hear the cash registers ringing, so to speak.

Particularly where dementia is concerned, I would take no notice of ‘stylish’ decor - IMO it’s there to impress the relatives who are choosing.
Cosy and homely are IMO far more important.

Also, cross off your list any that ask you to make an appointment just for an initial look around (but avoid mealtimes, when staff are often particularly busy.). A good CH should be happy for you to visit at any reasonable time.

FWIW, the dementia-only care home where my (self-funded) DM eventually went, was extremely good and by no means the most expensive we looked at. At a guess I’d say that the ratio of self-funded to council funded was probably about 50/50, but they all had exactly the same en-suite rooms and received exactly the same care.

The most expensive care/ nursing home isn't always the best. There's a home near me that is full of flashy facilities but can't keep any long-term staff. If you've got advanced dementia and you're paying for those flashy facilities then it's a waste of money, in my opinion. With my dad we were quoted close to £2k a week. We also had a string of homes just refuse to take him, his needs were too great.
I think some people have an assumption that every care home welcomes potential residents with open arms and at a minutes notice.

We simply wouldn't be in a position to pay. My DF is dead, and DM has a generous pension and assets (incl house) that I think would cover care for quite few years so I'm not too worried about her. DB is a high earner and would possibly help out financially if she needed it. She's adamant she's not 'being put in a home' though so that one could play out interestingly!!

DHs parents (divorced, both with partners who have no children) are both on NMW, his dad owns his house with his partner, but his mum rents and has absolutely nothing in private pension or assets. I do wonder what will happen to his mum particularly, she's not in the best of health and has quite a few years to go until state pension age. She will be one of those entirely dependent on the state for all her income and care in her old age, which is a bit worrying.

We got on the housing ladder late, and our mortgage won't be cleared until we are in our late 60s, DH doesn't have much pension provision either. Our priority will have to be our own financial security, I can't see how we would be able to make any kind of meaningful contribution without damaging our own retirement, and frankly I'm not willing to do that. Probably worth mentioning we both have ok relationships with our parents but not close, only see them once or twice a year even pre covid.

Her assets first, I think they can take everything up to about £25k (I can't remember the actual figure). Then the LA. There's no way I could afford to pay for a care home for my dp. My mum had dementia and actually the LA paid for her end of life care as my df couldn't continue to care for her

The care home my mum was in had a mixture of private, LA and NHS places. I would have hoped that if her assets had run out she would have been able to stay in one of the LA slots (which are cheaper). The LA slots are still partly paid by the resident. Their pension and benefits go to them and they make up the difference. The resident is allowed to keep some spending money. As it was mum was so ill she got NHS funding so didn’t pay anything.. I think family top ups are the difference between the LA amount) and the price of the place. They are sometimes negotiable. I suspect this will be what your DH is referring to. You need to be having a discussion about what he means.

@Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie

I think her children should pay, once her own money has been exhausted. And if her children are married, then it comes from family finances. I would hate to think that a mother would be left with nothing except the pension and LA funding when she has living children and family who are fit and able to work. In my eyes that would be a disgrace. I don't like my MIL and I would never want her to live with me but if she had no finances I would pay whatever necessary to ensure she had a decent quality of life.

Are you aware how much care hime fees are?! Well over, on average £1,000 per week! Not many people have that sort of money.

Expensive isn't always best as others have said. My dads nursing home could have done with a lick of paint and some new furniture but it was always spotless, it had very low staff turnover and even when agency staff were in it was the same ones from a small pool. We deliberately picked somewhere the council would fund so as a dementia sufferer he didn't have to deal with the trauma of a move when funds ran out.

I’ve never heard of adult children paying for their parents care. My mum was in a care home for 7 years. We sold her bungalow to fund it, when that money ran out the local council paid it, they didn’t move her thankfully.

@Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie

I think her children should pay, once her own money has been exhausted. And if her children are married, then it comes from family finances. I would hate to think that a mother would be left with nothing except the pension and LA funding when she has living children and family who are fit and able to work. In my eyes that would be a disgrace. I don't like my MIL and I would never want her to live with me but if she had no finances I would pay whatever necessary to ensure she had a decent quality of life.

So who pays for the children's care home fees when they need them? Because if their mother is long-lived it will eat their savings incredibly quickly.

My mums nursing care over the last ten years has taken all her savings and her house. The council now funds her, it at least pays the balance after her pension and benefits have gone into the pot each month. Initially my brother was presented with a top up bill, which was terrifying for him, but he/we just said no, we couldn't pay it.

As for money buying a better home, in my experience it doesn't. My MIL's council run care home is vastly better than the BUPA one my mum was in. When the council started paying they put her in an extra care apartment of her own, with carers coming in through the day (the care office is downstairs in the building) which is the sort of care she'd wanted all along.

Er, no! Absolutely do not do this!

You need to be saving for your own care and retirement, as your MIL should have saved for hers. If she can’t pay then her house needs to be sold, if she doesn’t have a house to sell the local authority steps in.

It is not usual custom or practice for children to pay parents care fees, unless it was the odd £50 or £100 that you wanted to make up a shortfall on.

My DGM went in to a care home, which was paid for via the sale of her bungalow. Before that she had carers at home 3x a week which she paid for our of her pensions.

To those asking, my own DP still run their business. They’re well off and could comfortably pay for whatever care they may need in future.

I’ll broach the topic of MIL’s future care with DH at some point. He’s an only child, so no siblings for him to share/discuss this with. He’s probably thinking about his own grandparents. One was in a very nice care home and the other had full time live-in carers (the difference was that his DGF had worked well into his late 70s, was very successful and also had a final salary pension). Both lived into their early 90s.

I’ve just done some research, the local residential home to us is £1470 PER WEEK!! I was reading advice from Age Concern. All assets, including house value are considered if it’s a single person. So the house would be sold to pay fees. I can’t remember exactly, but the council contributes something like £350 per week once the individual’s own assets have been depleted to around £14k. Families are apparently asked if they can contribute towards care bills, but it isn’t mandatory. Age Concern recommend families factor in a 5% annual fee increase when they’re making their decision around which home to choose. The local authority may try to move the resident to a cheaper home (even out of county), but family can appeal.

On balance, we’ve paid school fees for DC. If both of us are working, we could technically pay towards MIL’s care. I think that will be my battle with DH. The “can pay” versus “will pay”!!

I’m happy to work till my late 60s, but once our DC are through university, it will be so that DH and I can save more towards our own retirement, not fund the lifestyle of someone who decided to retire at 55.

which would cover about 5 years of private residential care

FWIW, the average length of 'survival' time in a residential care home is 2 years - they tend to be fairly decrepit by the time they go in anyway.

Actually she lives 3 hours away, so it’s not practical to support carers in her house.

Don't dismiss the use of carers in her home - they're useful in the early stages of deterioration. Typically councils won't place someone who they'll be funding into a care home until they're having 4 visits per day, but that's insufficient and the person is unsafe.

I would think - earlier rather than later - about what adaptations it will be physically possible to install in the house. Stairlifts, for instance, can significantly lengthen the time someone can spend in their own home - I have a relative who has been using one for about 17 years! That said, retiring to a bungalow would have been a much more sensible option than her house, which has a deeply impractical vertical layout.

My parents died very young so i will never have this dilemma but do councils really try to get children to pay for their parents care...thats outrageous....its hard enough trying to buy property and bring up your own kids without then being expected to contribute towards extortionate care home costs...how the hell is anyone supposed to save for their own retirement.

@Brightandlight

Thanks all. Interesting to see the mix in how other’s have approached this. Personally I wouldn’t be prepared to cover any top up fees, or for DH to use our family money in this way. So it’s really her house proceeds and any savings that will need to suffice before council support kicks in. I think that will influence the available options of care.

Her lack of savings/pension is down to her own decision to retire very early. My reluctance to pay isn’t about her as a person, she’s nice enough and friendly. Her life has always been about her though and DH has supported himself since age 16, so I didn’t think he’d consider himself morally responsible for paying for care etc.

A couple of years ago, we paid £8k for her to have a private op that had a very long NHS waiting list. In the same year, we also paid £3k towards some urgent house repairs she was concerned about (within 5 months she then spent £5k on a fancy holiday and changed her car!!). So that’s where my wallet snapped shut 😂

An emotive topic, but appreciate the different views and how others approach this topic.

Are you the poster who then wanted MiL to pay for your private OP, which you couldnt afford as she'd never paid you back for hers?

And your DH was a right dick about it?

All I can say is not me. Never will.

I wouldn't be paying for any care fees it's expensive!!!!
When my mum gets old ill look after her in my own home But I only have a mum, no PIL and no dad so it's easier to just care for her myself and I would pay for her care fees if needed but that's only because I don't have anyone else to worry about as it's just me my husband my children and my mum

But if swings and roundabouts really.
If he pays now then the house won’t be sold and as the only child he inherits.
Or the he doesn’t pay and the house is sold and the proceeds used for mums care.
So if he pays now he gets it back by way of inheritance
If he doesn’t pay there is no inheritance or he gets what’s left over.
He gains or loses nothing.

What if the parent lives in a council house and doesn't own it, therefore having no collateral to pay for care home fees. Who pays then?

social care will pay pintsized

I imagine pintsized that the LA pays.