Who pays care home fees for your PIL/DP?

[Brightandlight]

DH and I have been discussing plans for the coming tax year (he’s an accountant, so a forward planner). I mentioned our plans once school fees are paid soon etc and he countered with “well, we’ll probably have care home fees then”. He’s means for his mother!!

I’m a bit astonished, as I’ve never thought about paying for anyone’s elderly care. My own DP still run their own business despite being well past retirement age. They could pay for their own nursing care if needed.

How do residential care home fees work for your PIL or DM/DF?

MIL’s house is worth approx £300k, which would cover about 5 years of private residential care. Once that’s spent, who covers the fees then? She doesn’t have much in the way of savings/pension etc.

I get on fine with MIL. But we also don’t have the kind of relationship where she’d move in with us or we’d provide physical care ourself. Actually she lives 3 hours away, so it’s not practical to support carers in her house.

It tends to get awkward if the elderly person goes to a nicer home when self funding, then outlives expectation and ends up council funded when money runs out. It can be pretty bleak seeing the difference between the more expensive self funded options and what council money affords you, depending in your area. This is where relatives can feel they have no choice but to top up money to keep beloved parent in the nicer home they are familiar with.

All through life you should cut your cloth accordingly so at the end this should be no different

My grandmothers fees are paid from her pension (minus an ‘allowance’ the LA let her keep) and the LA pay the top up.

When my DGM was in a home my parents told me it was paid for using the proceeds from sale of her flat plus her pension. I assumed that's normally what happens unless they have no assets and then I guess the LA steps in.

MIL’s house is worth approx £300k, which would cover about 5 years of private residential care. Once that’s spent, who covers the fees then? She doesn’t have much in the way of savings/pension etc.

My partners grandmother's care home was £750 per week, her house didn't have much equity and the family agreed that they would all split the cost to "top it up" to keep her in that home once her money ran out. The extra was £300 per week, so the plan was to split it 9 ways, between 3 children and 6 grandchildren, with her kids paying £50 per week each and her grandchildren paying £25 per week each. She died before it got to that though.

If no money for a top up, then I think she would have had to move to a cheaper home.

I agree with TippledPink. The homes with top up fees are not necessarily always the best. When dmil went into a home her family did extensive research before deciding.They narrowed it down to two. One had top up fees and the other didn't. They liked these last 2 equally. The non top up fee was the only one out of many they researched, when rang up for a look around, said 'come anytime, come now if you like'. They did so and really liked it.

@Nothinglikeachocolatebrownie

I think her children should pay, once her own money has been exhausted. And if her children are married, then it comes from family finances. I would hate to think that a mother would be left with nothing except the pension and LA funding when she has living children and family who are fit and able to work. In my eyes that would be a disgrace. I don't like my MIL and I would never want her to live with me but if she had no finances I would pay whatever necessary to ensure she had a decent quality of life.

So you must have about 1k a week spare to pay for each parents set of fees, then?

That's only 16k a month if all parents require care at the same time! Pocket change 🙄

You need to have this conversation with your DH before care is needed.

@shiningstar2

I agree with TippledPink. The homes with top up fees are not necessarily always the best. When dmil went into a home her family did extensive research before deciding.They narrowed it down to two. One had top up fees and the other didn't. They liked these last 2 equally. The non top up fee was the only one out of many they researched, when rang up for a look around, said 'come anytime, come now if you like'. They did so and really liked it.

I agree with this too. My mother in law and stepmother were both in comparatively cheap homes that were much nicer than more expensive options we saw - one in the south west and one in the south east.

Neither home was luxurious, but they were well- run, clean, comfortable and had friendly and caring staff, which is far more important.

We're considering this at the moment. MIL has dementia. FIL has died. For now MIL's (inherited) money is paying for a carer to look after her during the day but eventually she will have to go into a care home. In our experience, care homes are quite keen to have your relative if they are self funding BUT in fairness to them, they seem to be willing to provide continuity of care paid for by the LA if you have self-funded for a few years previously.

But the thing we've learnt is, if you can afford it, save for your old age. It gives you a lot more options.

OP has your DH mentioned funding care for your parents?

You could rent out her house, would that be enough to cover the fees, adding in her cash, etc assets

I would pay even for my very low contact ex-MIL, family always comes first. Would not like to have my children's grandmother to spend the last few years of her life in misery. But I am not British, there is a strong cultural difference here.

If you need care at home you find it yourself if you have over £23,250 in savings. Once that threshold is reached social services takes over the funding, but you don’t have to sell your house.

If you need residential care. You sell your house to pay for the care. Once the money is gone then social services takes over the payments. Occasionally the person may have to move to a different home, but they do try to avoid this where possible.

I think person going into the home should use savings, then sell their house and then get council support. I had similar thoughts watching the TV programme Unforgotten last week when the policewoman said she’d need all her police pension as her elderly father has dementia and she may need to pay care home fees. Then in this weeks episode he spoke of changing his will to leave his assets to his girlfriend. I know it’s only a programme but I really do hope the policewomen tells him to piss off and doesn’t pay for his care.

Very few people could afford to pay for their parents care home fees as they are between about £800 and £1200 per week. The vast majority of fees are paid from the sale of assets or by social services.

Depending on your MIL age and circumstances, you need to discuss this earlier rather than later. My mother signed a POA when she was disgnosed with dementia - you can have dementia but still be legally competent.
With her full knowledge and consent, her house was sold when it became clear she would never return to it. The money was invested and used to fund her care home.

My DF (our only living parent) would never expect us to top up his care home fees. Surely the LA pay up to a limit, within which you can find a decent care home. I agree with @TippledPink, paying a top-up is no guarantee your DP is getting a better standard of care.

So she chose to retire early and will now live her life as a result of her choices.
She sells her property and pays herself (as she should, doesn't need the money for anything else) then the LA step in. That's what her choices afforded her.
No way would I be paying anyone's care bill. And only a very poor parent would let their DC do that.
Care home family top ups are not mandatory btw.

If she has a house that’s no longer needed to live in, and can be sold, that’s the usual procedure.

My DM and FiL both had a certain amount of savings, but their houses were sold as a matter of course after they’d moved to care homes, once their dementia needed 24/7 care.

When your DP talks about paying care home fees, does he have any idea of how much they’re likely to be? You’d need to be on pretty hefty money to be able to afford them without it impinging on your lifestyle.

If they are capable of being in their own home supported, theres organisations that can be your eyes and ears there, a sort of guardian that goes in with shopping a couple of times a week to keep an eye on them, coordinates a cleaner, carers package etc ... at a price but cheaper than a care home especially for 2. Fees vary a lot for homes too, grandad was paying £525 a month, but grandmothers were £1460 some place due to needs, nhs picked up 100% cost

And MIL wasn't thinking of 'family' when she chose to stop work and save for her old age and care needs. She was thinking of herself.
So you can do the same.

I think it's a bit of an assumption that she will need a care home I only have one remaining grandparent and none of the others have needed a care home before they died, one had at home carers once a day to help him out of bed and into the shower due to physical limitations. We have plans to extend our house partly for DC space but it is in the back of my mind that space could be used to accommodate one of my parents if necessary later down the line. However my father in particular makes it very clear 'if I ever need a care home take me outside and shoot me', so clearly would prefer to be at home or with family.

@kennelmaid

My DF (our only living parent) would never expect us to top up his care home fees. Surely the LA pay up to a limit, within which you can find a decent care home. I agree with *@TippledPink*, paying a top-up is no guarantee your DP is getting a better standard of care.

You would think so, but it’s not always the case. The amount offered in this area is far too small there is no availability at that rate and you just have to wait for the last LA funded person to die to get a room. Even the basics seem to need top ups.

DM is in a local authority funded care home but still pays pretty much her entire pension (approx £600pm) towards her care and is allowed to keep something like £15pw for herself.

We looked into ‘nicer’ homes but would have had to top up by at least £500pm for their most basic room and just couldn’t do it.
If his parents go into a home they will have to sell their house to pay fees until their savings are below £23000.

Were in the process of selling mils house to pay her care home, which is just over 5k a month. If she has assets I dont understand why you wouldn't use them.