Triple lock remains

[triplelock]

Name changed as I understand this probably won't be a popular opinion.

AIBU to think it's not exactly fair for the working population to have their tax thresholds frozen for 4 years while pensions get to keep their triple lock?

I understand some pensioners struggle on the state pension alone. But a lot of families also struggle on minimum wage.

My state pension will rise to approx £1000 a calendar month in April

It’s £9339 pa, does your year only have nine months? I make that £778.25 a month. Not a fortune.

Retired English people are the Tory party’s voter base, and the main source of its political power. Triple-locked pensions are that party’s contract with the people who vote for them.

It’s politically naive to expect the Tories to bite the hand that feeds them.

Older generations do have more "wealth" statistically then younger ones. That's not ageist & doesn't mean all pensioners are rich. Plenty are poor.

To qualify for a full state pension I need to pay in for 35 yrs which is no problem as Ive paid since I was 17 & through uni. I certainly won't be retiring in my 50s despite the fact I've channeled my avocado/coffee money into a private pension.

[quote pinkearedcow]OP, YANBU. It's a myth that pensioners are generally poor. On the whole, they have far more disposable income than many working age families

You may be wrong there...

What is the average retirement income in the UK?

The government’s most recent data (taken from 2017/18) shows the average weekly income for pensioners to be £304 – that’s after you’ve taken away direct taxes and housing costs. This works out at around £15,080 net per year.

How does average retirement income compare to average earnings?

It’s interesting to see how much disposable income the average pensioner today receives, in comparison to the average worker. Average UK earnings – before tax or housing costs – are £30,420. After income tax, National Insurance and 5 per cent pension contributions (the recommended minimum), this is reduced to £23,111. On the face of it, this is about 50 per cent more than average retirement income.

However, this does not factor in housing costs. The average UK mortgage payment is £669 per month or £8,028 per year. If this is deducted from the average net income, the result is £15,083.

By a striking coincidence, it appears from these figures that average net income is almost exactly the same for today’s retired generation as it is for today’s working generations. This is clearly in large part due to the high cost of housing. While the retired generation may largely own their own homes outright, and have no further mortgage payments to make, the working generation is spending a large chunk of its higher income on putting a roof over its head. Consequently, net income seems to balance out to within £3 a year. It really is that close.

www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pensions-retirement/what-is-the-average-uk-retirement-income[/quote]
But the average working age household has higher costs (not just housing) than pensioners (children, travel, paying extra for things they don't have time to do themselves, etc), so the latter still have more disposable income.

@VinylDetective

My state pension will rise to approx £1000 a calendar month in April

It’s £9339 pa, does your year only have nine months? I make that £778.25 a month. Not a fortune.

I get £840 a month at present. In April it is going up to £930 a month

@cptartapp

lido very very many pensioners have not had a lifetime of 40 years of working. MIL worked for five years, had DC and never went back. FIL worked for 35 years then retired on a big fat pension. Now 81 and still going. Has taken out far more from the system than he ever paid in. Not unusual for that generation.

I don't know who all these pensioners are that barely worked. I don't know any.

I really do think a lot of mumsnetters live in a totally different world. In my ordinary working class life just about all the pensioners I know worked for many years.

Lots started work at 14 and didn't retire until 60 or older. I can't think of any woman who only worked a few years. All the ones I know only stopped working briefly if they had children.

I think that no-one expected the pandemic and it is a 'once in a lifetime' experience (hopefully)!

Because of this I think all groups should pay for this,proportionate to their income, if that means the triple lock should go then let it go.

I have told my children to remember how they have been overlooked and vote accordingly 😉

I get £840 a month at present. In April it is going up to £930 a month

Does that include pension credit? Because I’d love to know how you’ve managed it!

It’s £9339 pa, does your year only have nine months? I make that £778.25 a month. Not a fortune.
It's paid 4-weekly - going up to £921 every 4 weeks = £12,000 a year. Yes, not a fortune but enough to live on.

@Billandben444

It’s £9339 pa, does your year only have nine months? I make that £778.25 a month. Not a fortune. It's paid 4-weekly - going up to £921 every 4 weeks = £12,000 a year. Yes, not a fortune but enough to live on.

Mine isn’t. Where have I gone wrong?

It's possible to have a higher state pension if you never contracted out of SERPS

@chickadeeeeeeeee

I think that no-one expected the pandemic and it is a 'once in a lifetime' experience (hopefully)!

Because of this I think all groups should pay for this,proportionate to their income, if that means the triple lock should go then let it go.

I have told my children to remember how they have been overlooked and vote accordingly 😉

If we let it go now it will never come back. Any pensioner who actually has a lot of income will also pay via the threshold freezes. Children have not been overlooked. Don’t be ridiculous. However if that means you are advising them never to vote Tory, go for it.

@saveforthat

It's possible to have a higher state pension if you never contracted out of SERPS

Under the old system my DH gets more than the 921 every 4 weeks, I am on the new system and I will get less than him due to the fact that under the 2016 rules the last 5 years of my NI contributions don't count and I opted out but I will still get more than the current basic.

This is a revelation! I don’t remember opting out of SERPS but I guess I must have done at some point. What an idiot I was!

@DynamoKev

Also for all those generational warriors - you'll be old one day (if you're lucky) - would you rather state pensions were decent or shit? Because if you kick the ladder down now, you'll actually be the ones losing the most over the years between now and your retirement.

You raise a very important point. You see there are the older generation who are prepared to share burden rather than selfishly pile it all on the shoulders of the younger generation even if this means lower state pensions or non means tested winter fuel allowance - or kicking the ladder away as you put it. It's the concept of inter generational responsibility of wanting leaving life better for our children and grandchildren- the next generation than when we were that age.

Alternatively there are the older generation with a more selfish attitude who just want to get the most out of system for themselves now and don't t give a toss about the burden or debt this places on the younger generation.

I'll let you decide which camp you fall into.

Also for all those generational warriors - you'll be old one day (if you're lucky) - would you rather state pensions were decent or shit?

I’m 35 and not a generational warrior (because I don’t think a race to the bottom helps anyone). But I don’t believe for a second there will be anything more than a token state pension by the time I’m due to retire.

I think that as long as the tax-free allowance is the same for everyone we should stick with the triple lock. Those of us who are working age generally have options if we want to increase our income - people on the state pension don’t.

@VinylDetective

This is a revelation! I don’t remember opting out of SERPS but I guess I must have done at some point. What an idiot I was!

The usual reason for opting out is because you wee in an employer's pensions scheme that was better.

Not necessarily an idiot vinyl. The SERPS portion was directed to a private pension pot which was expected to (and sometimes did) perform better & produce a higher income.

Also re SERPS those of us who joined an occupational pension when contracting out was the norm had no choice.

That said general opinion changed to it was a bad idea and of course it's not been an option for many years.

I carried on working for 2 years after retirement and deferred my pension as I knew I'd need the extra. For the posters who think I shouldn't benefit from the triple lock, I've always supported myself (paying tax and N.I.) and never claimed a penny in benefits in nearly 70 years. The state pension is erroneously referred to as a benefit by the DWP - it isn't, it's an entitlement as my employers and I paid in for nearly 45 years. As I said upthread, I'm sorry for everyone who's struggling financially.

The triple lock is non-negotiable in a civilised society, in my view. I’m a Corbynite socialist not a Tory. This race to the bottom, my life is shit so everyone else’s must also be, thinking is a terrible feature of modern Britain.
Largely I agree, but the triple lock will have to go at some point otherwise it will continue to pull away until it dwarfs average earnings.

The state pension is erroneously referred to as a benefit by the DWP - it isn't, it's an entitlement as my employers and I paid in for nearly 45 years.

It's not your money that you paid in that's been used to pay your pension. It's paid forward.

@tonytiy

The state pension is erroneously referred to as a benefit by the DWP - it isn't, it's an entitlement as my employers and I paid in for nearly 45 years.

It's not your money that you paid in that's been used to pay your pension. It's paid forward.

We know that, it doesn’t negate the fact that it’s a social contract we entered with the state when we started work, in my case almost 50 years ago.

No not everyone does know that & like many have said upthread I've paid since I was 17 & my retirement age is currently 68. I would like to believe in the social contract but I don't expect to see it or a free travel pass for that matter.