To think faith schools are great and it’s only the admission cheats that make them unfair?

[Wondermule]

My second controversial post in a few days. I don’t need a hard hat at this point, I need a bunker and full ghillie suit. But here goes.

Inspired by a thread, where a poster happily shared that they lied about going to church to get their kids into a Catholic school, before denouncing the admission system as deeply unfair...

I would like to put to the good people of mumsnet that actually, admission by religion is a really good idea. And it is only the people that cheat the admission system that keep it unfair for others.

Religion is a great criteria for school admissions. It doesn’t indicate intelligence; it isn’t an indicator of wealth; it would keep sibling groups together; and the ethos and PSHE would be generally in keeping with the parents’ beliefs.

The reason why faith schools are ‘better’ are because of non-religious people with intelligent kids cheating the system to get their kids a place. This then perpetuates the cycle - the kids perform well, the school becomes more desirable, so more people cheat to get their kids in.

So aside from depriving genuine applicants of school places, they are contributing to a system that they denounce as unfair. Whereas if they stopped playing the system, schools would actually be more mixed in terms of demographics, more equal, and there wouldn’t a stampede for just a few of them.

Phew! Thoughts please?!

I’ve read my local agreed RE syllabus . Yes. It’s a fair syllabus. My comments were actually responding to people who want more Christian teaching in schools to enhance other subjects. That’s not remotely what the agreed syllabus does. I’m more than aware other religions are covered. As they should be. I would like to think understanding of each other’s positions come from this. However parental influences are far greater.

I do say that there has not been a great groundswell against schools with a religious character. I personally am not keen but I cannot see, in my LA, that there’s a great issue with them from parents. Only the best secondary modern which is CofE with a tiny catchment really annoys people because it selects by religion. I’m not a huge fan of CofE aided schools and would want them to move to controlled. But that’s fraught with difficulty. I do think attendance at church should be replaced by catchment.

In fact many people want religious schools but don’t get into them. Not because of the religion, but because they are well led good schools

What do you mean by this?

There are quite a lot of CofE or RC schools with good attainment and progress of pupils. Parents perceive discipline to be good and that the schools are full of people like them. They want their DC to go to them.

The problem is that often Aided schools (I’m assuming posters know the difference between aided and controlled schools) have tiny catchment areas. Those living a short distance away from such a school can easily be disappointed not to get a place. The school that might be offered won’t necessarily be as good. At aided schools, Places are offered to dc who have a religious affiliation to a specific group of churches or churches in general. This builds up resentment from locals who do not go to church but live close to a great school to which they are denied entry.

I am not a fan of aided schools due to this exclusivity.

Does the faith school teach about other faiths? Is it tolerant to different sexualities etc regardless of the faith's teachings?

The Catholic high school (strict admission) nearest to me is heavily oversubscribed and abuse does occur primarily via church attendance. As it happens, the entrance exam is pretty much passable by anyone who goes for it.

Why does it have such a good academic reputation? Probably because parents who've had to make the effort to get the kids in to that school will be supportive of education going forward.

Some parents do not give a damn and will provide no support to their child at all and you can't just chuck money at that attitude.

We should be putting money into vocational schools. I knew far too many kids who weren't academic at all but could pick up trades easily. Why do we continue to try and hammer square pegs into round holes?