Who is being unreasonable here, him or me?

[Naunet]

This is going to be a long one, so fair warning!

I’m so fed up with my life right now, and I do think I might be a little depressed, probably from lockdown like a lot of people. So I need to know if I’m being fair or not towards my partner right now.

We’ve been together 10 years, he’s a wonderful man, kind, empathetic, funny and we get on fantastically. When we first started living together, he moved into my flat. He was earning around 80k-100k per year, I was earning about 32k, however because the bills were already set up to come out of my account, I kept being the one to pay them, whilst he paid for food, meals out, a couple of holidays, and most of our expenses for our dog. Thinking back now, I don’t think it was the best way to split finances, but he insisted he was spending just as much as I was each month on “us”, and it didn’t feel that uneven, so I didn’t worry too much.

A couple of years ago he got really depressed over his job and wanted to quit and retrain to do something else. I had a promotion at work and my pay was increased to 40k, so I agreed that he should quit if it would make him happy, and we also planned to move a little further out of London.

So we found a new place, and because he wasn’t working at this point, all the new bills again went in my name, it also transpired that he had no savings at this point, which I just can’t understand when he was such a high earner, and to be honest, it pissed me off a bit. It also meant I paid for all of our moving costs, as well as purchasing new furniture that we needed, out of my savings. Around this time we also discussed marriage. We’d talked about it a few times over the years, but now it became apparent he had no plans to marry me, and whilst that wasn’t a deal breaker for me, it did mean I wanted to start planning for my own future independent of him. He already has a property that he owns, I don’t, so I wanted to start saving to buy somewhere.

Time went on and he was making minimum effort to find a job, and also did very little around the house. His mum gave him 13k, he sold his motorbike and I lent him 3k to tide him over, he did also still buy the food shopping, but the vast majority of this money was spent on his assets. Then COVID hit, and with the increased stress, I lost it with him. I told him that whilst he was home he couldn’t just sit on the sofa playing games all day, he needed to do a proper food shop so that we had stuff in should we both get sick, he needed to do the house work and step up and contribute (not financially, just something towards our relationship). Things did improve, but obviously him finding a job became even harder.

Just before Christmas last year, he finally got a new job after almost 2 years of being out of work, and it came with the opportunity to retrain, its exactly what he wanted to do so I’m happy for him, however, he is only being paid 25k, this is not what he told me he’d be earning. So this means I’m still paying for all of our bills except food, whilst he uses his money to pay his mortgage and the credit card debt he’s built up whilst being out of work. I really resent this, I need to buy my own house, yet instead I’m financing his. I wouldn’t mind if we were married, but we’re not, and we’re not going to be.

He’s not mentioned relooking at the bills since he’s started earning, or even mentioned paying back my 3k. I know he will start earning more once he’s been in the job longer, but he seems to just assume it’s ok to keep leaving me with all the bills without even discussing it with me.

A week ago he told me he’d won £200 on the lottery. I waited to see if he would do something for us with the money, but nope, he seems to have just kept it to himself. I’m starting to feel so resentful, I’ve raised it with him, he claims he subsided me whilst we lived in our own place, but fuck knows how he comes to that conclusion when I paid all our bills there too. I think if he showed some gratitude or acknowledge the sacrifices I’m making to support him, I wouldn’t be so angry, but he doesn’t, it’s like he thinks I owe him this.

I’m turning 40 this year, I’m desperate to buy, but I just can’t see how I can afford it when I’m having to support this man.

What do we do? How do I stop this resentment building? I want to be clear that he’s not tight, even though he sounds it from the above, I think it’s more that he has the mentality that we’re going to spend our lives together, so all money is our money and we’re a team. I’m not so sure anymore.

Don’t let this freeloading and gaslighting arsehole take anymore from you. He’s had your money, your patience, and a decade of your time. You wanted to get married and somehow he’s decided you don’t deserve that either.

If I were you, I’d tell him to fuck off.

I don’t think he’s telling you the truth. How much is his property worth and what is the mortgage remaining on it? Why is he failing to give you the receipts for the shopping? I think he is deliberately deceiving you and you’re being taken for a mug, OP. He is what is known on MN as a cocklodger.

He’s contributing fuck all, has re-trained at your expense, doesn’t want to marry you (because then you’d have a claim on his pension from the high earning job/the rental property?)

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Did I read that right, £13 for a packet of fags?

Yes. Yes you did. Unless I missed it, the OP doesn't say if he smokes straights or roll ups though. If it's roll ups then the equivalent of a pack a day would go down from £400/month to £50-60.

"He had an accident around 15/20 years ago now, got a large insurance payout so put it towards 2 new builds in another city. Unfortunately they both took a big fall in value almost straight away"

And in 20 years the one he's got left is in negative equity despite him having paid the mortgage and the property market being relatively stable.

He's a liar. He's been remortgaging to keep up the pretence of bring a high earner, along with racking up credit card debt and actively lying to your face while you pay for everything.

I wouldn't be asking for last 3 months bank statements. I'd be looking at 2017/18 tbh. See how much he really earned and what he spent it on.

Have you really not ever seen a payslip or a bank statement of his in the whole 10 years you’ve been together?

What was his high earning job that he could just ditch and walk away from forever with apparently no transferable skills?

This doesn’t sound like a good relationship, it sounds like a really shit business arrangement.

What a shame you’ve wasted your fertile years on this lying cocklodger.

Don’t waste any more.

@DavidsSchitt

"He had an accident around 15/20 years ago now, got a large insurance payout so put it towards 2 new builds in another city. Unfortunately they both took a big fall in value almost straight away"

And in 20 years the one he's got left is in negative equity despite him having paid the mortgage and the property market being relatively stable.

He's a liar. He's been remortgaging to keep up the pretence of bring a high earner, along with racking up credit card debt and actively lying to your face while you pay for everything.

I wouldn't be asking for last 3 months bank statements. I'd be looking at 2017/18 tbh. See how much he really earned and what he spent it on.

This is correct OP. Unless the properties are on Mars or in Aleppo he’s a big fat lier.

Oh dear OP, I really am so sad for you because I think your ll world is about to crash down around you. Fwiw, in just a few years your life will be better and you will be out the other side x

@Naunet

Thanks everyone for your advice, I don’t think I was expecting these answers, and I feel like I need to defend him, because I promise you, in so many ways, he really is a good person. He’s kind, would do anything for anyone, has been there for me through difficult times, has been my rock and doesn’t have a sexist bone in his body which was a big deal to me after previous relationships.

But I can’t ignore what you’ve all said, I think I’ve given him too much blind credit when looking at finances, I’ve been an idiot.

I’ve always been so determined to never rely on a man financially, but I should have had just as much determination to never let a man rely on me financially either!

A lot of people find they have very different attitudes to money. And a lot of people who are not pulling their weight financially sincerely think they do. If he has not paid any bills, he may not really know how much they are. But thinking he spends a grand a month on food? Come on now! I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but that is just a piss take.

Have you really not ever seen a payslip or a bank statement of his in the whole 10 years you’ve been together?

What was his high earning job that he could just ditch and walk away from forever with apparently no transferable skills?

Yeah I saw his payslips, he genuinely was a high earner, although I see why people struggle to believe it because he has nothing to show for it. He wasn’t always a high earner, probably for 7 years of our relationship. Before that he earned around 60k I think (which is still a lot, but a little more average in London). It was an industry he’d been in all his life, but the high earning role landed in his lap and it was a great offer, but high stress which is why he had to stop.
In those 7 years, he got his motorbike, paid for a couple of holidays, got a new car and got shot of one of the flats, so I guess the money has gone somewhere.

There is no way a property bought 15 years ago is still in negative equity now if he's been paying the mortgage. I bought a house in 2007, and by 2008 I was in negative equity of circa £30k because of the house price crash but I then sold it in 2015 for what I bought it for, so it recovered its value by the time I sold, plus I'd paid 8 years off the mortgage and walked away with that in cash. Its actually back on the market right now at £25k more than it sold for in 2015. Long term, property equity only decreases if you're borrowing against it.

I am not convinced he was a high earner either. I'm a high earner - not the level he claimed, but over £50k, and I've often thought about a career change, but I've never considered moving to one which would pay £25k. That would be an incredible adjustment to spending for me. Also you tend to find that people who earn those kind of salaries tend to be quite driven - a month on furlough last year almost drove me batshit crazy - and I certainly couldn't just sit on my bottom for two years after leaving such a well paid job. There are exceptions of course, people who want out of the rat race etc, but he doesn't sound like one of those.

You aren't married, so he's basically living with you for almost nothing while paying his mortgage off with his income. There is no fairness here, and I personally agree with the others - I think he's been lying to you.

OP, have you ever seen concrete evidence of this high paying job? Because I, like pp, wonder if it's a fantasy and the reality is mediocre job plus a heap of debt in order to live the lifestyle a high paying job would afford.

If he did have a job with that kind of salary he is either hiding a load of money that you are now stopping up (£1k monthly groceries my arse) or he's got an expensive secret that you wouldn't like.

An0n0n0n thank you, to you and everyone who has posted comments like this. If it does though, I’ll be ok. I’m financially independent, enjoy being single and know it’ll hurt like hell, but can get through it.

yes its still sounding fishy at best hes terrible with money at worst hes lying about it

"so I guess the money has gone somewhere."

Yes, it has. Along with the 13k from his mum, the 3k from you, whatever he racked up on a credit card, the sale of his assets such as the flat and motorbike, and the money he absolutely must've taken from a remortgage of that flat is in negative equity.

Yet you went on just 2 holidays and he bought some meals out?

Is he bollocks a good man.
He's a leech and any 'goodness' is him keeping his cash cow sweet.

He could genuinely be terrible with money. Large insurance payout, investment properties, previous high salary, no kids, generous girlfriend and mum. He's never had to be careful with his own money and now he's being careless with yours.

I know MN like to portray men like these as arch manipulators who've planned a life of mooching but the truth could be a lot more pedestrian. The effect is the same though.

He could genuinely be terrible with money. Large insurance payout, investment properties, previous high salary, no kids, generous girlfriend and mum. He's never had to be careful with his own money and now he's being careless with yours

I know MN like to portray men like these as arch manipulators who've planned a life of mooching but the truth could be a lot more pedestrian. The effect is the same though

I feel like this is the case, he’s terrible with money and it’s only now that I’ve realised that, which yes, makes me an idiot, but I don’t think I’m a bad judge of character. I do think we hear about nasty, abusive men on MN all the time, which may mean people are less willing to give the benefit of the doubt, however I almost always agree with the consensus on posts, so I do really value these replies and need to pay attention to what posters are saying, it’s opened my eyes.

As you say, either way, the effect is the same and I need to make changes.

Here’s some perspective on his previous salary OP- In 5 years DH and I have managed to save £150,000 on a household salary of £80,000-£120,000. This is with having a child, a mortgage, taking decent holidays and spending a fair amount on food.

So where exactly did his £700,000 go?

OP I am sorry but you have been taken for a ride since the day he first moved in with you. I am not sure I believe that he was ever in a a high salary, but even if he was, he obviously saw you coming and decided he no longer needed to work.

It makes me feel sad that you have wasted a decade in this man, and your 30s the decade many of us start to make a bit of progress when it comes to finances and housing. You have spend all your money supporting this lazy waste of space and sacrificed your financial security. You can’t turn the clock back, but I think you need to get rid of this awful man and spend your 40s working on your future financial security.

"I do think we hear about nasty, abusive men on MN all the time, which may mean people are less willing to give the benefit of the doubt"

"I know MN like to portray men like these as arch manipulators who've planned a life of mooching but the truth could be a lot more pedestrian"

Nah, I never said it was planned or that he's capable of being an arch manipulator - simply that he's a liar. I'd say that's very pedestrian.

As for "nasty, abusive men" - I've never been in a relationship with one, unlike you, and so I'm not basing anything I've said on that. I don't think your boyfriend is nasty from what you've said, nor particularly abusive.

You did say he lied about his most recent salary, bigging it up and telling you it would be more. He didn't tell you until the moving costs needed to be paid that he had no money either.

If this was just him being a bit of a scatterbrain when it comes to money (which is the outcome you're going to cling to as you continue to fund him) then we wouldn't be talking several hundreds of thousands of pounds unaccounted for would we?

He's not kind or good. At best he's utterly thoughtless lazy and selfish.

Something doesnt add up. If you're sure about the big salary, where's it gone? That's a lot of money. The stuff about negative equity is bollocks. Have you seen evidence of this? Checked what these flats go for?

It all seems improbable and shady. Id want to see some figures.

Actually I wouldn't. I'd just show him the door. No need to be treated like a slave.

You got yourself a grade A cocklodger there. I don’t understand how someone with the drive and ambition and talent to earn 80-100k a year could lose that job and not even seek another job until forced to, and then to get a much lower paid one, all the while sponging off you and his mum and wasting your money. It beggars belief that he got away with it for that long.

if he genuinely thinks "that we’re going to spend our lives together, so all money is our money and we’re a team" he should have no problem with selling his flat to enable you to purchase a joint property.

And house prices have more than recovered since 2008/9. Look on Zoopla to get an idea of what other flats in the block are going for. You’ll be surprised.

So he had a salary of £100k, two properties, a combined extra of £16k from you and his mum - and he’s only got a motorbike, some nice holiday snaps and some negative equity to show for it?

Yeah, okay.

And this is bollocks, too: "that we’re going to spend our lives together, so all money is our money and we’re a team". If that was the case, why are all the assets - cars and house(s) in his name only?