Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Dh work making people go flexi and take a pay cut

212 replies

Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 08:31

Dh works for Network rail. He’s been with them roughly 10 years but at his currently job for 3.

He’s a signaller and they are changing the hours from 6/2 - 2/10 6/6 etc to 12 hour days/nights.

But they have announced they need 14 people to go flexi, meaning they won’t get any overtime or Sundays etc. We rely to the overtime and 2 Sundays a month.

If people go flexi he would have to take a £10k pay cut from missing out on the overtime etc.

They said it will be the people who haven’t been there the longest.

Aibu to think this is wrong and the job he applied for wasn’t flexi shift? Can they even make you do it?

It also means he won’t know his shifts until a week or so in advance, which with young children makes things so much more difficult and hard for me to work.

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBad · 28/02/2021 08:35

He earns an extra £10 from overtime? That’s a ton of overtime.

I have no idea if they are allowed to do this? If they have too many people but not enough work they have to do something.
Maybe it is flexi or some people get made redundant?

Bit shit for you though

ArchbishopOfBanterbury · 28/02/2021 08:38

It totally depends on what his contract says.

It sounds like redundancies on the cards if they can't agree to enough flexi workers.

ItsSnowJokes · 28/02/2021 08:38

I can totally sympathise (I have recently been made redundant), but if it is this option or redundancy which would you prefer? A lot of companies are using covid (and brexit) as an excuse to cut terms and conditions and change contracts. Can he look for something new while still working?

Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 08:42

I don’t think it’s for redundancy, because of their work and the long hours they have to have a certain amount on shift at all time and if people are off sick etc they have to cover them. They have to have 8 people on at a time.

Atm they have 8 people as flexi but they will need a few more to cover the longer shifts :(

OP posts:
Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 08:43

He doesn’t really want anything new, he’s trained hard for this job and he earns a good salary. He absolutely loves it and he likes using his brain 😂

OP posts:
UmteenthUser · 28/02/2021 08:47

I think that British Gas is doing something similar with their engineers contracts also, I imagine lots of companies will to save money - doesn't make it right though

Teapotsandtablecloths · 28/02/2021 08:48

Usually there is a period of consultation where they lay out what terms will specifically change for you and you are presented a new contract to sign. If he refuses to sign it, its his right. However it wouldn't surprise me if he was let go then. It sounds to me like they are doing it to save money and to not have to let people go. If people start refusing it might force them to redundancies.

Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 08:50

The thing is it’s been in talk for a while to do 12 hour shifts, since before covid so I’m not sure it’s because of that :(

OP posts:
Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 08:50

And only just before Xmas the manager on his shift was on about training him up to become assistant manger for his shift 😭

OP posts:
user1471538283 · 28/02/2021 08:51

He needs to speak to ACAS but it will depend on his contract. If this is being sold as to limit redundancies then he would need to do it. But I would also look about because this could end up in redundancies or hiring newer and cheaper people.

Sallycinnamum · 28/02/2021 08:52

Yes they can change the contracts but I presume he is in a union as most frontline rail workers are?

I expect as other posters have mentioned NR are trying to save money, which is understandable in this climate. Overtime is usually the first thing to go.

Unfortunately he's going to have to suck this up OP.

MrsCaptainJakeBallard · 28/02/2021 08:53

My Dps work is also doing this. They have brought in full time flexi roles to cover the standby shifts and the workers who do standby will no longer be able to do so (they can apply for the new role). The new role salary is more than their existing basic rate but much less than they would make from standby but it's set to save the company thousands per year. I don't know the ins and outs of it as DP isn't affected but some of his team are and despite how unhappy they are there isn't anything about standby/overtime in their contract so there isn't anything they can do about it.

Sirzy · 28/02/2021 08:54

Unless there is a guarantee of overtime in his contract then I don’t think there is much you can do about that side of things.

It’s tough but a lot of companies, and as a result families, are going to be having to make tough decisions like this.

tttigress · 28/02/2021 08:56

First rule, don't really on overtime to finance your regular budget.

From the management side if someone is getting £10k in overtime, something has gone seriously wrong with the management in that department previously, and it isn't a suprise that they met to correct it now.

TokyoSushi · 28/02/2021 08:57

Something similar here, DH is working harder than ever and has had his wage reduced to 90%, they've now gone further and he is on furlough some weeks which impacts us further. I think at a lot of places the choices are this, or no job. A lower wage is obviously preferable to nothing, but it's far from ideal and we can only hope it doesn't go on for too much longer.

B33Fr33 · 28/02/2021 08:59

Huge cuts are happening across the sector, extending into the engineers, smt etc. The historic contracts for full time etc keeping everyone in a wealth of overtime for the out of hours are going. The contracts go to base rates, less extras for "out" of hours or the classic bank holiday. The retail industry has had a strong influence. My husband's Christmas/ New Year overtime (in a different rail sector) used to pay for a decent family holiday on it's own, now it covers the school uniform budget.

Unfortunately the choices are rock and a hard place. Literally "do you want a job or not".

Racoonworld · 28/02/2021 09:03

Is there anything in his contract about guaranteed overtime? If not he doesn’t have to be offered it. Its not a pay cut if it’s overtime being taken away so there isn’t anything he can do about it. Does he have set working times in his contract? If so flexi will be a change so he would need consultations etc.

Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 09:03

Why is it an issue he gets £10k from over time and Sundays? On Sundays he earns £500 so it soon adds up.

We don’t rely on it for our bills etc, but it’s nice to have extra once the bills etc are paid.

Tbh we need to get rid of our car and that would save us a lot lol

OP posts:
Oblomov21 · 28/02/2021 09:04

Big cuts and contract re-negotiations are going to be happening across the world I fear.

Moondust001 · 28/02/2021 09:04

People often think that contracts can't be changed. They can. But in this case it is probably easier than most, because nobody is entitled to overtime. Network Rail is unionised - contractual changes are negotiated with the union, so what does the union say?

To be honest, given the fact that they have lost massive amounts of revenue over the past year, and given that there may be a lot less income due to employment changes across the country (so, for example, a lot less commuting going on), then paying £10k in overtime to employees may not be sustainable in the longer term, and it could be a choice of no overtime or no job. Many industries are facing such choices. That's not to have no sympathy with your position, but simply to recognise the reality of where we are right now.

WhenSheWasBad · 28/02/2021 09:09

Why is it an issue he gets £10k from over time and Sundays? On Sundays he earns £500 so it soon adds up

It’s not an issue. But that is a lot of money for overtime. A lot of people do overtime, so they will just be comparing £10k to what they get.
£500 for one day it seriously good money. I can see why he would be sad to let that go.

VinterKvinna · 28/02/2021 09:10

@Thedarksideofthemoon30

Why is it an issue he gets £10k from over time and Sundays? On Sundays he earns £500 so it soon adds up.

We don’t rely on it for our bills etc, but it’s nice to have extra once the bills etc are paid.

Tbh we need to get rid of our car and that would save us a lot lol

That's how they get you, oh pay isn't great, but overtime is.

I had a friend who worked for a delivery company (may have been royal mail, but the big lorry side) they got a 'turning up allowance, which meant they got paid extra for doing a shift, but couldn't really afford to take leave... as their pay went down

Scarlettpixie · 28/02/2021 09:14

I suppose if they are paying people 500 a day for a overtime on a Sunday you can see why they might be having a rethink.

Unless the overtime is contractually guaranteed, I am fairly sure they can stop it. Other changes such as to working hours would require consulting and union involvement. If he isn’t in a union I suggest he joins one,

Original poster
Thedarksideofthemoon30 · 28/02/2021 09:17

He is in the union, il get him to ask them.

The union is constantly fighting for pay rises each year too which they always get.

It’s not so much the 12 hour shifts that are a problem, it actually works out better as he doesn’t have to do 10 shifts in a row etc but it’s just going flexi which is rubbish 😭

OP posts:
Oblomov21 · 28/02/2021 09:17

Overtime is rarely contractually guaranteed. Sometimes, rarely. And yes contracts can be changed. Negotiations, then changes.