Dh work making people go flexi and take a pay cut

[Thedarksideofthemoon30]

Dh works for Network rail. He’s been with them roughly 10 years but at his currently job for 3.

He’s a signaller and they are changing the hours from 6/2 - 2/10 6/6 etc to 12 hour days/nights.

But they have announced they need 14 people to go flexi, meaning they won’t get any overtime or Sundays etc. We rely to the overtime and 2 Sundays a month.

If people go flexi he would have to take a £10k pay cut from missing out on the overtime etc.

They said it will be the people who haven’t been there the longest.

Aibu to think this is wrong and the job he applied for wasn’t flexi shift? Can they even make you do it?

It also means he won’t know his shifts until a week or so in advance, which with young children makes things so much more difficult and hard for me to work.

I think they can do this following the necessary consultations with the unions. Overtime isn't ever a right and if they can save money (and it sounds like they need to if most are making 10k extra doing OT) by making people take flexi contracts then it makes business sense to do so. But I would expect the union to be fighting for the employees to be compensated accordingly, they can't get something for nothing. I wouldn't expect it to be as much as the extra 10k your DH makes, but somewhere in between.

They have something on their side, they are clearly needed due to the overtime. So if need be the union could suggest an overtime 'ban' to ensure adequate recompense for the staff members future flexibility. That only works if people stick to it though

It’s not that crazy depending on how many hours a day is & what the normal rate of pay is.

The firm I work for the first rate of overtime is 42% more than the normal hourly rate. (After 6pm and Saturdays) 2nd rate of overtime (after 10pm & Sundays ) is 84% more than normal rate. These rates are in the contracts.

Do you work op? If not, can you return to work to make up the £10k shortfall since your dp will be on regular hours. There's plenty of working from home jobs atm you could apply for. I just applied at my local uni processing admissions for Oct. Really good money at £15 an hr, it's only temp for 6 months but there's loads of permanent roles wfh available.

10k on overtime is ridiculous from a
Business perspective

Rubbish for you though

I’m really stuggling to find work that works around his shifts with 3 Dc at home. I currently bank staff for as a support worker but I make roughly £300 a month. It pays my debt though from before I met DH.

It’s not so much the loss of overtime but the fact that shifts will be different and it could be nights one night and days the next and that there would be no option of over time but if they are shift staff they get offered 2 Sundays over time a month. It’s just abit crap really. 😔

To be honest if he earns too much to qualify for child benefit - then he’s not badly paid.

“I very much doubt we would be entitled to anything, we don’t even get child benefit x”

OP NR offers a good flexible working policy - can your DH request set shifts for childcare purposes? I know several traincrew (I know that's the TOCs, but IME NR is even more family friendly) who have successfully got set shifts for this reason, especially if they can find someone to partner up with to do the other side i.e. one does days, one does nights. It may also affect his pension - you may want to look into this as, IIRC, signallers and drivers get their overtime taken into account for the RPS scheme, if he's in that.

Unfortunately it is clear that redundancies and cost savings will be required post-pandemic (still going ahead with HS2 though ) and I've heard the DfT has been challenging all railway companies about reliance on overtime and Sunday working.

@Berthatydfil

To be honest if he earns too much to qualify for child benefit - then he’s not badly paid.

“I very much doubt we would be entitled to anything, we don’t even get child benefit x”

This!

I imagine this has all been done via the union, and with good business economic reason judging by how much overtime a huge organisation like NR must be leeching in Sunday overtime.

You say you rely on the 2 Sundays per month ie £1k. I get that you get used to having the extra - however, you will likely find that they can legally do this unless his contract allows for guaranteed overtime.

If in doubt he needs to speak with his union.

Jesus no wonder they’re restructuring that, that is ridiculous and wasteful of company money. I’d be glad I had it so good for all those years because that is INSANE.

It's not necessarily insane. It's often cheaper to pay some people overtime rather than employ a new person.

But £500 for working on a Sunday?! Outside of a highly unionised train line that would be considered mental

The thing is if he's doing 'overtime' so regularly it's not really overtime is it, it's part of the standard working pattern, I'd imagine he is paid very well for the work he does, I have a friend who works in a similar role and the rates for weekend and bank holidays etc are astronomical given its clearly part of the day job to work unsocial hours, would be interesting if police, HCP and other public sector staff were given the same terms and conditions as railway workers. Friend gets triple time for working boxing Day!!

But £500 for working on a Sunday?! Outside of a highly unionised train line that would be considered mental

How many hours is it for & what are the hours?
Like I said some police earn pretty hefty overtime. My sibling is a teacher & earns £40 an hour for revision classes during the summer. DH occasionally does o/t (private sector) at about £60 an hour.

Plus it doesn't change my point that it's often cheaper to pay overtime than employ someone else.

Yeah triple time for Xmas and Boxing Day too.

He works bloody hard and misses out on so much, like today is dds 13th and he’s asleep as he’s on 12 hour nights this weekend and has been since Thursday until Thursday next week. Then he’s working late Friday and has sat/sun off then another 10 shifts.

I'm public sector & if I work a Sunday (very rarely) I get double time. Doctors can get unsociable hours payments & plenty earn loads of overtime.

I used to work in retail & would get paid double time Sunday or bank holidays. It's really not that unusual.

@Thedarksideofthemoon30

Yeah triple time for Xmas and Boxing Day too.

He works bloody hard and misses out on so much, like today is dds 13th and he’s asleep as he’s on 12 hour nights this weekend and has been since Thursday until Thursday next week. Then he’s working late Friday and has sat/sun off then another 10 shifts.

Not disputing that he works hard but it's his choice to do this work 🤷‍♀️

@lolulop

I used to work in retail & would get paid double time Sunday or bank holidays. It's really not that unusual.

I used to work retail. There was no overtime pay and the only bump up was double pay for Christmas Day and New Year’s Day 🤷‍♀️ Every others time and day was fair game. I really think the idea of hugely inflated Sunday pay is dying pretty much across the board.

It might be dying doesn't mean it doesn't exist for many though does it?

i'm not surprised retail workers no longer get it as their pay & conditions have shrank over the years. Do you think police & doctors shouldn't get it?

If you earn so little why aren't you claiming child benefit so you get the NI credits towards your state pension? Even if it has to be paid back through his tax return or you elect not to receive the cash but to keep the claim open so you get your NI credits.

Anyway, the rail industry is looking at the changes it needs to make long term for things like flexible commuting and more leisure travellers at weekends. Things won't go back to how they were before. It makes sense for them to bring to an end a remuneration model that is so excessively expensive.

Oh come, you can’t complain that he misses out on birthdays because of shift work (hint: if the birthday is that important, take annual leave) when he chooses to work a job that brings home over £60K a year but requires shift work.

I’ve missed birthdays because I’m in an international sales role and (pre-Covid) might be abroad. That’s the job. I knew it, I chose it.

I’ve never met a rail worker yet that isn’t fully aware of their union, so I find it odd that you’re even asking on here, even more odd that you say you’ll get him to speak to his union. He works in one of the mostly highly unionised sectors of industry! How has he not already spoken to his union?

On an individual level, yes - of course it’s shit for you to face an income drop and childcare issues. But surely you must have realised he had amazing pay rates and that this was never going to last?

Sounds like they need to reduce overtime. It's very unusual to get overtime these days. Most companies don't give extra at all, it's time off in lieu! I would suggest he concentrates on trying to get more advanced notice for shifts, i suspect there will still be overtime from time to time but they want to get better at scheduling staff

Huh? Iv said he’s in the union..

Why wouldn’t it last? He should get over time though, that’s the point. It’s there and they ask him to do it. So when/if he becomes flexi the shift workers will still get offered the overtime but flexi staff won’t.