Dh work making people go flexi and take a pay cut

[Thedarksideofthemoon30]

Dh works for Network rail. He’s been with them roughly 10 years but at his currently job for 3.

He’s a signaller and they are changing the hours from 6/2 - 2/10 6/6 etc to 12 hour days/nights.

But they have announced they need 14 people to go flexi, meaning they won’t get any overtime or Sundays etc. We rely to the overtime and 2 Sundays a month.

If people go flexi he would have to take a £10k pay cut from missing out on the overtime etc.

They said it will be the people who haven’t been there the longest.

Aibu to think this is wrong and the job he applied for wasn’t flexi shift? Can they even make you do it?

It also means he won’t know his shifts until a week or so in advance, which with young children makes things so much more difficult and hard for me to work.

@Thedarksideofthemoon30 I work in the industry although not for NR and I'm not clear on exactly what the proposed changes are, so I think it's not that surprising people are not sure what is going on.

As I understand it Sundays will still be covered by overtime but this overtime will be offered to people on fixed rotas (first? Or exclusively?). Meanwhile, your DH is being asked to move from a fixed rota to a relief type position where he covers as and when necessary so loses the certainty of knowing his shift pattern in advance, while others will get to keep it. And this is based on last in first out. He also (definitely? probably?) won't get Sundays any more. Is that right?

@Tinkerbell1010

Definitely isn't hence why you get enhancements

Every day of the week and every day of the year is a working day. Whether you work it or not is about your contract, not the law. And nobody is entitled to enhancement for working any day - not even Christmas day., Again, that is a contractual matter.

It’s not normal to get extra money, time and a half, double time, triple time to work certain days in a 365 day operation. Those days have long gone. Relying on overtime at those rates is inefficient. This is why the company is trying to change the work pattern. It’s normal. But all changes should affect all doing the same job with perhaps a voluntary sign-up to an on call system.

@peak2021 yes, very likely. Depending on where you are in the country almost a certainty.

[quote tentative3]@Thedarksideofthemoon30 I work in the industry although not for NR and I'm not clear on exactly what the proposed changes are, so I think it's not that surprising people are not sure what is going on.

As I understand it Sundays will still be covered by overtime but this overtime will be offered to people on fixed rotas (first? Or exclusively?). Meanwhile, your DH is being asked to move from a fixed rota to a relief type position where he covers as and when necessary so loses the certainty of knowing his shift pattern in advance, while others will get to keep it. And this is based on last in first out. He also (definitely? probably?) won't get Sundays any more. Is that right?[/quote]
This is correct! Although we don’t know if he’s on the list to move from fixed to relief until near to October so we are sat waiting and unsure what to do. He’s going to contact the union tomorrow and say that with childcare issues etc that he can’t be relief worker.

THE COMPANY IS STILL GOING TO BE PAYING TIME AND HALF ON A SUNDAY EVEN ONCE THEY HAVE CHANGED THE WORK PATTERN. That’s just wait they pay and have done and will carry on doing..

@Thedarksideofthemoon30

THE COMPANY IS STILL GOING TO BE PAYING TIME AND HALF ON A SUNDAY EVEN ONCE THEY HAVE CHANGED THE WORK PATTERN. That’s just wait they pay and have done and will carry on doing..

Well then not much to complain about, still has it better than most of the population

If I was coming into a company that is paying £10k per employee in overtime I would be looking at what was going wrong. Something would have to be done and says a lot about company they’ve not done this for years.

However, I massively sympathise with you Op. horrible to loose money and have no control over that. I know folks are saying you shouldn’t budget on it, but that’s easy to say when you have other options

I think you have to try hard not to try to fix this yourself or try to get control on the situation- up you can’t just now and this period of lack of clarity is the worst.

Get DH to get union involved immediately. Once you know what they can/can’t do the look at each of the issues seperate you.
The loss of income is one issue. The lack of notice on his shifts with kids is another. There may be something he can ask for about the later if not the former

Try to focus on things you can control right now, and hang on in. I am sorry your in the situation 💐

OK, I understand the issue. I think he definitely needs to talk to the union reps, I don't know where they will stand on staff being forced into relief roles when that's not the basis on which they were hired. I don't suppose anyone else is going to volunteer for the relief roles either. I agree with the poster that said it may be that he needs to submit a request for a certain working pattern for childcare reasons.

Is it just his box/ROC this is affecting?

Well then not much to complain about, still has it better than most of the population

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy leaving aside the race to the bottom issues in what you've said, the Sunday issue is that op's DH will no longer be getting the overtime, others will.

@tentative3

OK, I understand the issue. I think he definitely needs to talk to the union reps, I don't know where they will stand on staff being forced into relief roles when that's not the basis on which they were hired. I don't suppose anyone else is going to volunteer for the relief roles either. I agree with the poster that said it may be that he needs to submit a request for a certain working pattern for childcare reasons.

Is it just his box/ROC this is affecting?

At the ROC there are loads of different groups who work say early/nights etc and they are all affected. So they need 6 from the 4 groups of 8 people. If that makes sense? They have 8 relief workers already and need 14 for the company to change to 12 hours.

The 12 hour shifts are not the issue, he doesn’t want to become a relief worker.

Are they offering an incentive for staff to become relief workers?

No 😔

Your dh may work hard but he isn’t skilled enough to be earning anywhere near £500 a day.

@Thedarksideofthemoon30

He already does 12 hour shifts, that’s not the problem really it’s more the fact that he won’t know his shifts until the week before etc which causes massive issues with me working and our children. Atm he gets his rota for the year so we can plan etc

I know it s annoying now but I thinks he's been in an incredibly privileged position, caused by a very strong union. Sadly the good times are over. Lots of people are going to be hit hard. It's a new era coming.

Do staff eg, all the signallers, have different contracts from each other now?
A compromise might be DH gets a fixed shift rota in return for becoming relief staff or working antisocial hours.

@MyDcAreMarvel

Your dh may work hard but he isn’t skilled enough to be earning anywhere near £500 a day.

Well he obviously is 😂🤷🏻‍♀️

@SundayTeatime

Do staff eg, all the signallers, have different contracts from each other now? A compromise might be DH gets a fixed shift rota in return for becoming relief staff or working antisocial hours.

Everyone has the same shifts but say if one set is on nights another would be on days etc. It’s 24/7 so there are always people on. And there has to be 8 on a shift.

@MyDcAreMarvel

Your dh may work hard but he isn’t skilled enough to be earning anywhere near £500 a day.

Plus I would LOVE to see people who are saying it’s not worth the money do the job. It’s bloody hard and a lot of pressure. If he fucks up people can die. Plus he has to deal with a lot of suicides weekly.

@Thedarksideofthemoon30 no he isn’t that’s not his normal rate. Also the shift workers will be covering the Sundays.

@Berthatydfil

To be honest if he earns too much to qualify for child benefit - then he’s not badly paid.

“I very much doubt we would be entitled to anything, we don’t even get child benefit x”

Not necessarily - my husband’s earns slightly under the cut off but earns a lot in bonuses - they still take the child benefit back if your income is over the limit, whether that’s basic salary or not.

OP, I voted YABU, as overtime is not guaranteed and in your opening first, seems to be your main area of concern. You seem to brush this aside as your posts continue.

@MyDcAreMarvel

Your dh may work hard but he isn’t skilled enough to be earning anywhere near £500 a day.

What?! Do you even know him or what his job entails? I imagine it takes a lot of skill.

Everyone has the same shifts but say if one set is on nights another would be on days etc. It’s 24/7 so there are always people on. And there has to be 8 on a shift.

Yes, I get that. But that doesn’t mean they all necessarily have the same contract. I work similar shifts to my colleagues - not the exact same - but my contract is radically different due to historical reasons. Do any staff currently have a flexible working arrangement? It might make a difference as to who they are targeting for these relief shifts.

I'm still very confused but to answer your base question - yes they are allowed to do so. This may not be the job he applied for but this is what it is going to become.
Very long shifts might be an issue but that isn't what you;re unhappy about - it's that your DH is no longer guaranteed a specific amount of OT and the shifts are not known in advance.
Not much you can do.. and if it has gone this far the unions are probably involved already and have agreed

@Thedarksideofthemoon30 ignore people baiting you, some people will never see jobs such as your DH's as being worth the same amount as desk jobs for which a degree is a recruitment requirement. You will never change their minds; they seem to find it personally offensive.

I don't have any practical advice I'm afraid, beyond speaking to the union. I'm just not familiar enough with NR T&Cs to know how this will play out. Local reps may be able to provide extra info/advice on top of that from the more senior level reps who will be dealing with the issue in terms of consultation. For example, in my role, local reps would know staff that might be interested in swapping shifts whereas company council level and above wouldn't know that. I realise that swaps aren't going to cut it, but that's the kind of thing I mean when I say they may have extra info.