To think personal responsibility no longer exists

[Wondermule]

I know this is going to be a controversial post, so I’ve got my hard hat on 🪖

It has really dawned on me how little personal responsibility people take now. Every other thread seems to be someone posting to offload their problems (financially dependant relationship, COVID worries due to high BMI, hellish mother in law among the most common) yet there is always an excuse about why they can’t the advice given, usually drip feeding something about anxiety or mental health. Please don’t see this as me making light of mental health issues (sufferer here myself), but it doesn’t change the fact only you can make changes to your life.

Also many posts citing ‘lack of support’ - this one inspired by the chocolate button debacle! - a mum feeding her 3 month old chocolate buttons just didn’t have the ‘support’ or ‘education’ to make healthy choices apparently. Never mind the healthy start vouchers for fruit and veg, maternity grant, free weaning courses at children’s centres, all the help available online... it’s all the state’s fault. I feel ‘lack of support’ will be cited until the government send someone to prepare all her meals and police her shopping trolley.

I feel in being too sympathetic, it is just providing excuses for people not to take responsibility for their own choices. Or am I wrong??

I agree. And I think it's getting worse. My kids seem to have no idea, nor do their friends. Although Dh and I feel quite strongly about this, nothing we do seems to make much difference.
My friend is a solicitor and she says all her 20 something solicitors are absolute snowflakes and always come up with some reason.

Demolition
"We made them that way because it suited us."

I don't agree. How did it suit us?

I used to say in a light hearted way that personal responsibility was abolished by the Blair government in the late 90s, in the context of the introduction of 'no win no fee' and 'where there's blame there's a claim'. Sadly I think that idea has taken root more widely, in a different way, and the OP is not being unreasonable.

There is a need for developing more resilience, and for people to have less reasons to make excuses for a lack of will power to tackle some issues in their life.

Completely agree OP and also with @rawlikesushi as I am also a teacher and the word ‘support’ id driving me bonkers.
Also on here the constant refrain of LTB at the slightest irritation without any y consideration of how the poster could support themselves-the assumption being that UC will pay.
And so many teachers on here suffering from ‘anxiety’ after a bad day at work and being egged on by others to ‘get signed off with stress’ -yes get paid to dir st home while everyone else fors your work for you!
And people who book holidays etc, no travel insurance, wanting cancel because they are scared of covid or suchlike then bleating about not getting a refund. They say that they ‘can’t afford to lose the money’ but they clearly can as they spent it.

Well I think you are partially wrong in that there are always mitigating factors- eg learned bad eating habits, maybe the milky buttons baby was teething they hadn’t slept all night and she was trying to keep them quiet. However, I’m a big fan of mental toughness- at first from necessity now because it’s worth taking the time to do something new, to be resilient, to deal with unexpected situations. Going outside our comfort zone is needed at times. Another big one- seeing the whole picture and considering things from someone else’s view. If we only see the world through the lens of our own life experiences we will be blinkered. At the moment there is a situation where I hold one point of view and my friend holds another. I can quite understand why she feels as she does so I’m not going to force my opinions down her throat and also, I like her. Sometimes a lot of the arguments we have are because we don’t think what it’s like to be the other person in the situation. I do wonder with some aibu’s whether the posters anxiety etc causes or exacerbates some of the situation. Although it’s great to be told YANBU in real life we should be using discussion, cooperation and negotiation to resolve problems rather than to apportion blame which leads to broken relationships. Of course, many people post on AIBU because their relationship is already broken and they just want permission to leave.

I completely agree. I see it coming through from my kids school. First zoom lesson, the teacher takes a register for a class of 10 year old, who all manage to respond to hearing their name. Cue 5 minute rant about how 'amazing' they are. We try to balance things out at home

Very interesting thread. I would just say that I don't know how to make kids resilient. One of my kids is extremely resilient, the other not. Both brought up exactly the same way. I wonder if it is nature and not nurture.

Frequentflier I imagine as with all these things - for your own children it’s nurture when they’re resilient and nature when they’re not. And vice versa for other people’s children

I have to say that I find the arguments about resilience and always looking for someone else to blame really interesting because often the people making them can’t see the irony in their own opinions

@NiceGerbil

So many thoughts

The first point is around traditional left wing v right wing values.

Some people think it's best to look out for others in society, look to reasons they might not be coping or making good choices.. Believe that giving a hand, support, education etc will help pull them up.

Some believe that helping makes people soft. The safety net removes the drive to earn, improve etc. And this is worse for people as they are denied the impetus to get out there, try, enjoy the feeling of success etc.

I'm not going to comment on either, both sets think their way is the best thing for society.

On personal responsibility. That's interesting.

I had a talk at work about 'generations'. I'm Gen X. She said they tend to work to live. Expect it to be a slog. Expect things to be hard and life is a grind etc. And just get on with it.

That younger generations are more likely to say. Sod that. I want a job that works for me. I want to enjoy it. I'm really not sure that's such a bad thing.

I also don't recognise the characterisation of young people on here. They aren't all the same. And you get lazy sods of all ages.

Thought this upthread is a great post.

I also do think that the over-supervised, over-scheduled (millions of 'clubs' per week as the non pus ultra, and 'classes' from tiny), over-directed style of parenting particularly prevalent in the UK has a lot to answer for. There's very little awareness of childhood being a continuous transition towards independence and autonomy. It's much more about being a race to 'achieve' (look at the terms in which people routinely talk about child development on here - 'ahead' or 'behind' as if it's a race with all the oher children). There's a great deal of pride at 6yos reading Harry Potter or 3yos allegedly being able to sit through and understand a full-length film, but pearl-clutching horror at children being left alone at home for 20 min aged 9 or walking 2 min down the road to the shop aged 8.

*non plus ultra, obviously

I had the conversation recently with a younger family member. They seemed to think the reason they didn’t have the correct tools for their college course was because they hadn’t been given them. The college had said they would be provided and the family member just left it at that saying it was the college’s fault she was getting behind and they would have to grade her better because of that. The family member had made no effort to chase the college, no effort to buy said items themselves (under £20 in total which they could afford) When I said sometimes in life you have to look after yourself and do the things necessary so you can succeed and not rely on everyone else to help you. They were totally baffled by that.

I completely agree. I notice alot around autistic children, just because it's something I'm very familiar with. I am autistic, I was raised so differently to how alot of parents seem to raise their autistic children now. My mum would never have expected anyone else to change to suit me, in any way, it was my job to adapt, I wasn't allowed to hit or scream during meltdowns, it didn't matter why, it was still my job to control myself. And so I learned HOW to control myself and how to adapt, in school and socially, I dont have many friends because I'm really not a fan of socialising, but I can mask that well and be polite and chatty without coming home and losing control.

I dont think people take responsibility for their own finances either, or health, MIL expects the doctor to cure her myriad of problems that she's causing by being obese. People have children they know they cant afford to provide for themselves.
But it's because we have so many support systems. It's the governments job to provide for you and your children if you cant, it's the NHSs job to give you free healthcare, it's the schools job to adapt to learning difficulties. If we didn't have those then we wouldn't have anyone else to blame but ourselves.

Who's Mr Cruz?

Vacuum I can so relate. At my dc primary the “everyone’s a winner you are all brilliant” ideology did my head in. Dd got a certificate for “good siting” once. Dear god.

I work in a university and see a broad range of young people. One of my roles is to manage the process of applications for adverse circumstances and academic appeals. I know that the number who are struggling on and holding it together in incredibly tough circumstances far outweighs those who are exploiting the support systems in place. Whatever their circumstances, they still have to do the work and meet the quality thresholds to get the grades.

I saw yabu actually. Plenty of people do take personal responsibility as evidenced by this thread.

I feel like people want to take personal responsibility but actually it’s very difficult to do sometimes. It really is.

We all like to think we are the reasons for our success and fortune when most of the time, we aren’t.

If you want your dcs to take responsibility, telling them isn’t going to work. You have to show them and encourage them to try, to make mistakes. They learn by watching and doing, not by telling.

A lot of our ability to take responsibility is diminished in our current society. So many hoops to jump through etc.

Also I think what some people mean by taking responsibility is “STFU, I’m not interested in your views and feelings or opinion”. You see that undertone in responses to concerns about racism, sexism and other prejudices. The “woke” insult is a most recent example.

Ted Cruz!

Of course @HereComesATractor

Again, I am not saying people with serious (and unchangeable) problems should stiffen their upper lip and get on with it.

I’m saying people with problems that are completely within their power to change, should take responsibility for them and stop making excuses/blaming others.

Ted Cruz US politician Trump supporter anti abortion anti climate change pro gun anti state support for anyone. Not sure he would win the “be kind” award at my dds old primary..

I’m saying people with problems that are completely within their power to change, should take responsibility for them and stop making excuses/blaming others

Unless you have a very clear understanding of their circumstances, I’d suggest you hold your counsel. You may think you know, but may not.

Better to be encouraging and supporting than a complete knob.

@peak2021

"I used to say in a light hearted way that personal responsibility was abolished by the Blair government in the late 90s, in the context of the introduction of 'no win no fee' and 'where there's blame there's a claim'. Sadly I think that idea has taken root more widely, in a different way, and the OP is not being unreasonable."

Absolutely.

Yes Iggly, 'why don't people take personal responsibility' can mean 'I would like to think their situation is all their own fault because that means it could never happen to me'. Just as 'resilience' is currently being misused (on this thread in part, and in wider culture) to mean, essentially, 'being non-problematic to others, accepting crap situations without a murmur'. Getting on with things can be a feature of resilience, but it isn't all of it.

This said, I do agree we have become frightened of our children's negative emotions and afraid to see them go through challenge. But isn't some of this, at least, a reaction to our own parents, and our selves, being damaged by an entrenched STFU-and-get-on-with-it culture? Sort of an emotional variant of the 'I want you to have it better than we did' thing?

@MsTSwift

Ted Cruz US politician Trump supporter anti abortion anti climate change pro gun anti state support for anyone. Not sure he would win the “be kind” award at my dds old primary..

Ahh thanks.

Of course, the inevitable assumption that I hold right wing views and unpalatable opinions. Smear tactics are alive and kicking I see!

@Wondermule

Of course *@HereComesATractor*

Again, I am not saying people with serious (and unchangeable) problems should stiffen their upper lip and get on with it.

I’m saying people with problems that are completely within their power to change, should take responsibility for them and stop making excuses/blaming others.

I think sometimes resilience comes with age. I used to be a terrible whiner in my youth, now I just get on with things. Generalisation I know, but as you get older, and you are battered by illness, death, job loss and so on, you stop sweating the small stuff.