Why are women so bitchy?

[BearingUp84]

For context - I'm a woman and I don't think I'm a bitch!

However there seems to be a group of school mums that seem intent on leaving me out of everything. I had no idea why. They meet up (pre covid obvs), have group chats etc. One of them can't even look me in the eye on the rare occasion she talks to me.

It's like the old adage, 2 company 3's a crowd. But it's when we're in a bigger group as well.

Why do some women just seem intent on leaving someone out? Constantly on the edges etc?

YABU - not all women are bitches
YANBU - these women are bitches, try make more friends

Just rah!

I've always thought men are incredibly bitchy, but in a much more hidden way. That said, if these women are bitchy, they don't sound like worthwhile friends.

@Hettyhopper

I used to get upset about this too, I couldn't swallow the fact I was a C list friend and fine for a few bbqs and coffees but left out for lots too. I can now see I attacked my own self esteem by questioning it and obsessing over it. Some of the group were just closer than others. I couldn't handle the dynamics so I am actually no longer involved with any of them (will say hello in passing, no bad feeling). Feel much better for it. They are not being 'bitchy', it is just not about you, sorry. I do get how hard that feels.

This is really spot on.

You do get it sometimes where some people in a friendship group will just become THE BEST of friends - there were two in my old job like this, had to sit beside each other, got pouty if they didn’t get to lunch together. Some people get a kick out of feeling special in that way, other times they really may just be some form of soul mates. In the former situation, it feels shit to be around, even if you know they’re being dicks.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

Maybe they sense your misogyny and don't want to be friends with you?

sigh

Why do people who make this observation invariably end up being accused of misogyny?

I've been reamed over this on an old thread and I'll be reamed here too, but I don't care, I'm saying it. Yes, SOME women are inherently bitchy. I'm sorry if that's an inconvenient truth for some people, but SOME women are. Just like SOME men are inherently obnoxious sexist creeps.

Usually threatend by you?
They thrive amongst themselves
Competitive
Small minded
They have to much time on there hands.
Your better than them financially or lifestyle is a threat
Woman are just competitive
If your able to stand else where and stop caring what these people do and say it helps,, I see through many as bored and a husband earns enough they have little life except at the school gate (how sad)
Why be worried about a Click!
Find another more genuine parent or time it so they are not near!
I do not get the bitch factor,, I am happy within myself though.. you should see faces if I smile at a dad 😂

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

Warm and fluffy, no. But polite, yes. I've been a mum at the school gates for many years now and I've never seen men freeze other parents out of conversation. Men have plenty of their own faults but I do think that this is a trait that you see more in women.

Men have their own cliques of course they do! Workplaces, sports teams, running clubs etc they group 🤷‍♀️

@SmokedDuck

Anthropologists will tell you that it's pretty usual in societies worldwide for women to have more complex and widespread social networks, and that these can often be fairly hierarchical. Woman also as a group typically use more complex language and in ways that serve these social hierarchies and relationships.

The most extreme example of this in our society, IMO, is at middle school, where girls are really starting to develop their abilities in that area and boys are left behind. But even among adults men tend to be more direct in how they use language socially.

Both men and women can be jerks, and both men and women can try and be exclusive or leave people out. When women do it though it's very often through their social networks and language.

This is so interesting. Ignore the people putting you down on here, I totally understand what you mean. The school gates fill me with fear too and I definitely have given up trying to navigate the various cliques that exist. I don't get included in any of them. It depresses me sometimes but I tend to get down when I'm already feeling low. Other times I just don't care. Lockdown has been very revealing for showing me who are the people worth talking to and who have reached out to check in on me and vice versa. I am trying to focus on the people who are genuine. I always have a gut reaction about people and how they make me feel.

OP leaving out the fact that you call women 'bitches' which I hate. Men are just as capable of the same behaviour. I've come across some nasty, backstabbing spiteful men - this isn't just a female trait.

There could be any number of reasons why they are leaving you out:

• They see you as competition. Eg, better dressed, more money, nicer car, better looking and so on.

• They see you as a threat Eg, Something about you that reflects badly on them.

• They're very insecure and have scapegoated you in order to bond.

• They don't think they have anything in common with you.

• They are snobs. They think they are above you in some way Eg they live in a better part of town

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. You are going to come across people who don't like you for any number of reasons. Many of those reasons will be things you have no control over and have nothing to do with you personally as they don't know you.

I know it's difficult but something that will save you an awful amount of heartache is the ability to shrug and move on. To not give these people headspace and to learn to either seek out people who are kind and accept you or to learn that no company is better than bad company.

The worst thing we can do is try to fit in or be accepted with people who don't particularly like us or are nasty to us.

@Hettyhopper

I used to get upset about this too, I couldn't swallow the fact I was a C list friend and fine for a few bbqs and coffees but left out for lots too. I can now see I attacked my own self esteem by questioning it and obsessing over it. Some of the group were just closer than others. I couldn't handle the dynamics so I am actually no longer involved with any of them (will say hello in passing, no bad feeling). Feel much better for it. They are not being 'bitchy', it is just not about you, sorry. I do get how hard that feels.

Yes this is it

We have aquaintances and people we are polite to, or C list friends (though that’s a harsh term). They prob like you OP but as a fellow parent rather than close friend and that’s normal for most people - we can’t be close to hundreds of people

So often on MN, people say the school gates are bitchy, unwelcoming and unfriendly

I often wonder if these posts come from people with low self esteem, or people who are easily offended

I am generally a friendly, polite person, and I wouldn't be actively unkind, but if I don't know you, I'm not going to invite you for coffee or include you in a WhatsApp group. I don't think that majes me a bad person

@PicsInRed

They're not "leaving you out", they're weren't your friends to begin with. You seem resentful of them, but no one owes you friendship

Women aren't "bitchy", but your OP is rather.

If you’ve never met bitchy women you’ve led a sheltered life!

@SnowdropsCrocuses

Women don't have shared personality traits, and bitchy is just a word used to tear women down for doing things men also do - but men aren't expected to be warm and fluffy and kind and everyone's friend This. YABU

Bollocks, I’ve never met a guy who resorts to such juvenile behaviour as op describes

I’ve found lots of people who turn to cliques are insecure and a not confident in the stability of their friendships. If you were among a group of 3 or 4 friends at school gates and saw someone standing by themselves, a bit unsure it would be normal to smile at them and maybe have some chat if they smile back. Social interactions shouldn’t be hard but what you find more of is an absolute refusal to allow you into a social group or even the return of a smile in case you disrupt the friendship group. I have no idea where that fear comes from but yes it stinks of secondary school and desperation. The long lasting friendships continue irrespective of other people coming in and out of lives and social groups.

I wouldn't say all women are bitches.I'm not but absolutely some women are as are some men .I am difficult to get to know I weigh people up when I first meet them .I have been told more than once when you first meet me I come across as scary and look like I would be really unfriendly but I actually am not I just have that resting bitch face. I have two best friends which I we have been best friends over 25yrs and a number of other friends some I met at school and we are still good friends .
Honestky op I wouldn't bother with them. There will be people out there that you will click with I honestly wouldn't want the drama of trying.

I think one of the probs with school gate is that often your conversation isn't private - someone you could chat for hours with over coffee can be quite strained when random others can hear.
It's odd they've changed their behaviour- you'll have to be really busy with your exciting life and arrive last minute most days until you've found new chat mates.

I’ve never made close friends with other school mums, plenty of acquaintances but not friends. The main reasons are we don’t have a huge amount in common, not because they are intentionally being unpleasant. We socialise during nights out etc, but we wouldn’t spend time on the phone chatting or talking about personal things. A lot of it is probably also due to my personality. I don’t open up easily and have a few extremely close friends but not a very wide friendship group.

I wouldn’t take it personally op. Be pleasant at the school gates etc, but look for friendship elsewhere.

I’m not friends with any of the school mums, I don’t speak to any of them, I’ve never thought it was because they were bitchy I just haven’t connected with anyone, not everyone has to be your friend.

“There seems to be a group of school mums” etc is an odd way to describe people you go on to say you’ve got a longstanding friendship with, go out for meals with etc. Are you sure you’re not giving them some non-friend signals?

@notanothertakeaway I’ve found it’s usually the bitchy people who are insecure and have awful self esteem, but try to cover it up, and handle it by trying to bring down everyone around them by being bitchy to them.

I think it’s more likely those people on this post who think people aren’t like that, are the people who are like that and are the problem. And they’ve spent years lying to themselves that they aren’t a bitch, then a post like this hits a nerve. OP given how snipey women on here are here on regular posts, this probably wasn’t the best place to post this. But I’m enjoying the hornets nest you’re stirred up.

You know what, I believe you and I believe you that these women are horrible to you, because the same thing happened to me in another context. The best thing you can do is not concentrate on them, view them as unimportant and focus on other positive aspects of your life.

YANBU OP however I think some women behave like this because society has conditioned them to. I don’t think women are more inherently bitchy than men.

My own experience - as a then-undiagnosed autistic girl/teen - was that girls were a complete nightmare if you didn’t conform within a range of particular expectations. When I went to Uni however I was on a very male-dominated course and for first time in my life properly made friends with people I could be myself with.

Back to school gate and predominately women and I found it so so hard and had to immediately go back to masking and trying to be more like them. Was accepted at times, but not part of any social group and not invited to any social nights. They liked me enough to talk, but excluded me. And there was without doubt several queen bees who people clearly kowtowed to (as an autistic person you spend a lot of time observing and working out what your supposed to do - so this was very noticeable to me)

I’m now away from the school gate, and live a relatively isolated life only catching up with people one- to-one which is just so much easier.

So I do feel for you OP - it can be a very isolating experience and it makes you feel horrible at times.

This was me with DS1’s school days. I didn’t bind with any of the mums. I just wasn’t that interested in the stuff were into- home decoration, branded handbags etc. There seemed to be a lot of status games going on and I didn’t have the skills, money or energy to join in. Maybe I gave off a disapproving/ uninterested vibe and they tended to ignore/ exclude me. 4 years later and in DS2s year the dynamic was quite different and I made a really good mum friend, plus just generally got on better with the others. So things can change depending on the cohort and the dynamics in a particular year.

The thing that jumps out at me about these “school mums are bitchy” posts is there’s a sense of entitlement about them.

There’s an underlying assumption that all mums are obliged to get on with all other mums and we are letting the side down by not basically turning the school gate into one big social gathering for Uncle Tom Cobley and All.

You know nothing about these women and their motivations and their relationships are based on anything other than just having kids in the same class. You’re not owed a friendship with them just because your kids are at school together.

I think half the problem with these “school mums” moans is people just not having enough to do. Stop feeling like people owe you things. If people aren’t responsive to overtures of friendship go and make other friends or do something else. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop obsessing, find your self respect.

Sorry if that’s harsh I am so tired of these threads.

Stop trying.
Start ignoring them.
Stop letting it bother you.
Women like this have a sixth sense. The more you try to get them to like you the more they'll ignore you and pull away.
Best advice I ever read was
If you enter a room full of strangers. 30 peopke for example
Chances are:
10 will take an immediate liking to you
10 will be able to take you or leave you
10 will maybe take an instant dislike to you
Learn to not care about the third group.
Throughout life you are going to meet people who don't like you. It likely won't be your fault it's just how it is. and it's OK.
Concentrate on the first two groups.
Don't washe time and energy on the others.

Maybe they just don't like you , click with you ? Maybe they aren't doing it on purpose but no one thinks to ask you along .. would you say you are similar and have things in common with them? Someone called me a bitch once because I forgot to ask someone to a pub meet , it was someone I wouldn't consider a friend , it's not that I don't like her , I just haven't gelled with her .. she was welcome but I didn't think to ask her .. or maybe it's the opposite , you are gorgeous and successful and make them all feel insecure . It's a
Myriad of reasons but it's never really that they are 'bitches'

I cant believe you’re getting such a hard time on here OP. It isn’t you, some women don’t grow out of the cliquey phase and I usually find it’s the small town type folk who don’t have much going on in their lives. Ive also found these type of people deny what they are doing and know the line to tread to make sure they can deny their actions.
Move on and speak to other people, it’s their problem not yours. Remind yourself that they must have very boring lives to keep track of who they won’t say hello to on a school run, the highlight of their day is probably getting to ignore you.