Why are women so bitchy?

[BearingUp84]

For context - I'm a woman and I don't think I'm a bitch!

However there seems to be a group of school mums that seem intent on leaving me out of everything. I had no idea why. They meet up (pre covid obvs), have group chats etc. One of them can't even look me in the eye on the rare occasion she talks to me.

It's like the old adage, 2 company 3's a crowd. But it's when we're in a bigger group as well.

Why do some women just seem intent on leaving someone out? Constantly on the edges etc?

YABU - not all women are bitches
YANBU - these women are bitches, try make more friends

Just rah!

[LolaSmiles]

Except I'm meant to be their friend. I'm meant to be in their friendship group
Cross posted with this.
What do you mean you're 'meant' to be their friend?

As in you've occasionally had a chat with some of them at school related events and maybe your children are friends, or you speak to lots of them regularly, socialise regularly, and have a friendship independent of your children?

[BearingUp84]

@LolaSmiles

Except I'm meant to be their friend. I'm meant to be in their friendship group
Cross posted with this.
What do you mean you're 'meant' to be their friend?

As in you've occasionally had a chat with some of them at school related events and maybe your children are friends, or you speak to lots of them regularly, socialise regularly, and have a friendship independent of your children?

Yep. We've been out for dinner. Nights out. Coffee.

Our children are not friends. They have their own friendship groups.

[Loopyloututu2]

Except I'm meant to be their friend. I'm meant to be in their friendship group

Erm sorry OP but you said:

However there seems to be a group of school mums that seem intent on leaving me out of everything. I had no idea why. They meet up (pre covid obvs), have group chats etc. One of them can't even look me in the eye on the rare occasion she talks to me.

They do not sound like they’re your friends! Maybe you are imagining a friendship that isn’t there? I’m not meaning to sound cruel honestly.

[mrurddhasabitpart]

Yabu. They aren't excluding you. You are just not their friend surely? If you were out with your friends and a lady sat down near you , would you really all just start chatting to her and including her in your conversation?! They're friends chatting.

My two best friends and I have children in the same school. We ourselves have been friends for 30+ years. we laugh engage and chat with each other as we are friends- laughing about our shared lives together at the school gate isn't excluding the other mums who weren't there! They aren't our friends. They are nice enough but it's ludicrous to suggest that we shouldn't chat/ enjoy one another's company becaise it'll make relative strangers feel left out. I HATE small talk and don't want to make small talk about the weather to all the other parents when I can have a real in depth conversation with my actual friends.

[BearingUp84]

@Bluntness100

No, but if you have 5 friends who are all friends with each other you don't invite just 4 of them for coffee, unless it's some kind of Covid limitation

Again, of course, that is leaving someone out. The op was never their friend. She just happens to have a kid at the same school.

In non Covid times I have my friends round a lot. I do not invite the neighbour across the road because we know each other and live in the same place. I am not a bitch or leaving them out because of it.

We've been in the same friendship group for 2.5 years.

[CleverCatty]

OP - but you're not their friend even though you're in their friendship group!

Another example - years ago I worked for a large trendy firm - lots of men worked there and some women. I made an effort with a few women but a couple were downright, well not bitchy to my face, but certainly only friendly very much on their terms. I instead made good friends with the new girl and a couple of other nicer women there.

[Biffbaff]

Some people are bitchy - men, women, anyone can be nasty to others. Stop making it a sex thing. It's not about women, it's about people's behaviour. You don't have to stoop to their level.

[thenewduchessofhastings]

Some people don't evolve beyond the secondary school playground.

I don't think I'd want to be friends with people who purposely exclude others.

Also I cba with schoolyard gossip

[Cam77]

Truth is there are basically only two places to make friends that probably account for about 95% of friendships worthy of the name: school/university and workplace.

If you’re someone who frequently changed jobs/location (eg me) or works from home (eg me), you better hope those school and university connections stand up for a very long time.

[CleverCatty]

OP based on your last post I'd maybe consider your behaviour... really.

It seems very strange if, if you're in their friendship group as a friend for the past 2.5 years that they suddenly leave you out! What did you do?

[mrurddhasabitpart]

But you aren't in the friendship group if your being left out? They are in a group that you want to be a part of but are being left out of. If that's the case, you shouldn't want them as friends and find others as they are bad friends.

[Xiaoxiong]

I'm meant to be their friend. I'm meant to be in their friendship group.

On what basis? Merely because you have kids in the same school?

Or do you mean you used to be fully part of the friendship group, and you have now been frozen out and you don't know why? Have you been Wendy-ed?

[LexMitior]

@thenewduchessofhastings

Some people don't evolve beyond the secondary school playground.

I don't think I'd want to be friends with people who purposely exclude others.

Also I cba with schoolyard gossip

This

[wondarah]

Men are just as bitchy if not more so.

Some women are rude & shallow, find different ones.

[BearingUp84]

@CleverCatty

OP based on your last post I'd maybe consider your behaviour... really.

It seems very strange if, if you're in their friendship group as a friend for the past 2.5 years that they suddenly leave you out! What did you do?

I have no idea what I've done. I genuinely don't. I even asked one of them the question and the response: "you've done nothing wrong"

[Loopyloututu2]

C’mon OP - have you been flirting with one of their husbands?

[BearingUp84]

@Loopyloututu2

C’mon OP - have you been flirting with one of their husbands?

😂🤣😂 happily married here thanks! 🤣🤣

[Loopyloututu2]

Maybe the queen bee-ish one has decided she doesn’t like you for some reason or have done something trivial to annoy her and the others are being arselicks? It happens. Is there a Regina George type in the group?

[IndecentFeminist]

I can't really vote because both options can be true. Not all women are bitches, maybe these are.

Or alternatively maybe they don't like you? You're in the same friendship group so presumably aren't completely left out, just these two don't get on with you.

Most women aren't bitches. Women are just expected to be nice to everyone regardless of their friendship status and true feelings, so it comes as a shock when one 'isn't'.

[LolaSmiles]

I have no idea what I've done. I genuinely don't. I even asked one of them the question and the response: "you've done nothing wrong"
Maybe you've just not clicked and formed a friendship.

If you think you've been friends with them for 2.5 years, but we have had covid for a year, then that takes it to 18 months. If pre covid they were meeting up together and not including you then some of that 18 months you weren't friends as well.

I wonder if what you are viewing as a friendship group is actually an acquaintance relationship based on having children of a similar age.

Pre covid, how much socialising did you do with this group that was totally separate from your children and school?

[Hettyhopper]

I used to get upset about this too, I couldn't swallow the fact I was a C list friend and fine for a few bbqs and coffees but left out for lots too. I can now see I attacked my own self esteem by questioning it and obsessing over it. Some of the group were just closer than others. I couldn't handle the dynamics so I am actually no longer involved with any of them (will say hello in passing, no bad feeling). Feel much better for it. They are not being 'bitchy', it is just not about you, sorry. I do get how hard that feels.

[CleverCatty]

@LolaSmiles

I have no idea what I've done. I genuinely don't. I even asked one of them the question and the response: "you've done nothing wrong"
Maybe you've just not clicked and formed a friendship.

If you think you've been friends with them for 2.5 years, but we have had covid for a year, then that takes it to 18 months. If pre covid they were meeting up together and not including you then some of that 18 months you weren't friends as well.

I wonder if what you are viewing as a friendship group is actually an acquaintance relationship based on having children of a similar age.

Pre covid, how much socialising did you do with this group that was totally separate from your children and school?

This. I think you just haven't clicked.

You do need to have things in common with people not just to be mummy friends etc!

My NDN is a close-ish friend and another NDN is also a friend - we tend to go out to drinks, cinema (pre-Covid of course!) but there are certain mummy friends they have through school who invite them to drinks etc - and I couldn't really get upset about it! But NDN prefers not to have to talk about her kids sometimes or other people's kids (with me) and we actually get on pretty well (hence the closeness).

It sounds strange if they say 'you've done nothing wrong'.

[Newnamefor2021]

I'm really confused by your most of these people exclude your yet you're "meant" to be their friends.

Are you saying you used to be really good friends, going for coffees, nights out etc and then it stopped or do you just assume as you know them you're friends with them?

I have friends and I have friends 😆 I suppose the later are acquaintances really.I try to talk to everyone and if there there is a night out etc we usually open it up to anyone in ears shot. But I wouldn't want everyone at mine for pre drinks and taxi rides, I wouldn't want everyone I know doing a spa day with me or going out for coffee. Don't get me wrong, I've met up with lots of people for coffee once or twice but that doesn't mean we are friends.

Also, some friendships fizzle out, some friends are extra needy and that's exhausting. I have a few friends who I have let fizzle out for various reasons. It's not I don't care, I do care, but if the friendship is only one sided then it a lot of them and energy to invest in a one way relationship.

I don't think forced friendships work. I used to go to church and that was hard work because you would have friendships that weren't really with people you would normally be friendly with. It was such a relief when I left and developed my own friendships with people I clicked with.

[LunaLoveg00d]

But choosing not to be friends with all and sundry doesn't make you a bitch.

Bitchy would be looking you up and down at the school gates and making some derogatory comment about your shoes.

Where does this perception come from that everyone at the school gates MUST be best buds with everyone else?

[YouokHun]

I know it’s hurtful to be treated like that @BearingUp84 but I think it’s unwise to think of women as a homogeneous group based on a couple of examples. Women are individual humans who can be both nice and nasty and usual that capacity to be either is within us all. That’s what humans are, imperfect specimens.

My DM is an example of someone who has never had many friends. She’s a kind person but crippling social anxiety meant that always responded to people in a really curt way and was often downright rude to people making friendly overtures. Was she being a bitch - no. Did the other person deserve the rejection - no. Was my DM’s behaviour a indication that she was a bitch in the general sense? No.

I was pretty short with someone yesterday and they might conclude that I’m a bitch but I’m really not, I’m just preoccupied caring for my terminally DF; so maybe this person has something going on like me in her life that contributes to her behaviour? Maybe it’s deliberate because she just doesn’t like you and this only has power if you are desperate for acceptance - are there other people you could get to know at school or could you treat school as what it is: a place where your children get educated and is populated by other people who gave birth at the same time as you - nothing more.

It’s true that some people just take against someone for no obvious reason. No one HAS to like you OP. I’m a bit like you as I feel very uncomfortable if someone else is being left out or apparently excluded and I would always try to pull that person into a conversation on the other hand I’ve never really been bothered about belonging to a group. I’d honestly put your efforts into other people.