To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

[MedusasBadHairDay]

My boss has already said she's happy for me to wfh permanently, which is great because it's allowing us to move house to somewhere with more space (Including a home office).

Means I can avoid driving, therefore helping minimise joint pain and making me a more useful employee.

Also means less need for childcare as my kids are getting to an age where, as long as there's an adult in the house, they are self sufficient.

It's not going to suit everyone, but then neither did office work. So hopefully there will be more adaptability.

[lioncitygirl]

No sorry I disagree - personally I have seen people regress when working from home as it’s so isolating.m - my husband being one of them. And you can’t really work when you have a 6 year old home early afternoon surely - my kids finish school at 315 and home by 430pm, the work day doesn’t finish at 430 so what am I to do with them from 430-530? They are 6 and 4, and my 6 year old cannot occupy himself for 2 hours, nevermind my 4 year old. Who’s going to pick up the slack when the parent has to deal with the child? Other team mates? No thanks.

[IrmaFayLear]

Someone made a good point upthread that men are likely to be more isolated. Women tend to be better at picking up casual acquaintances - at the school gate etc - and make some “coffee” friends. 99% of men I know would never be able to make friends locally, and would just sit in their study/spare room forever more with hardly anyone to talk to.

I have a friend who works for a Big Bank which has announced axing a large proportion of its office space. Friend has been informed that they will be wfh from now on with no office return. They are 55 and single. They are now thinking of quitting as in one fell swoop they’ve gone from working in a large, sociable office to 9-5 sat at their dining room table and not being required to speak to a soul.

[user1497207191]

There'll be a lot of employees leaving one job and starting somewhere different over the next few years.

Some employers will want staff back at their desks - staff who don't want that will leave to join a firm that has a preference for WFH.

Vice versa, some staff will want to work in an office, and if they're currently employed by a firm who want their staff to WFH, they'll move to get a job at a firm with offices instead.

We'll have a few years of flux as staff move from job to job to get a better fit for their respective preferences.

[user1497207191]

We also have to accept that public transport will have to be VERY different for the new "normal". The operating companies won't be running high frequency services into city centres to carry fresh air, so there will be fewer trains/buses serving commuters. Not only fewer trains/buses, but some routes may be dropped completely. Season tickets aren't suitable for 1, 2, 3 days commuting per week as they're nearly always for full weeks, so staff will be buying tickets on a daily basis.

[Bibidy]

It has it's advantages but personally I prefer the balance of at least a couple of days in the office. It's lonely and dull working from home, very difficult to build relationships with colleagues.

I miss the buzz of going for a drink after work, or even just sitting down and having lunch with someone.

Obviously it's great financially for those who used to commute or those who no longer need so much childcare, but it does come with downsides too.

[Hawse]

I'm absolutely thrilled about the perspective to WFH long-term. My husband has just had his contract changed to reflect this new reality, and while mine has not - it looks like 'flexi' working is on the cards (where we go into the office max 4x a month for team meetings, and that's it). As a previous commuter into London, it's saving us a whopping 12k per year (yes, you read that right, each train ticket was annually around 6k), plus we don't have to leave home each day at 6.45 am for a train or get home when it's dark out. Meaning we have more time for each other, and can take care of our child properly! I think that there is a HUGE benefit to kids this year seeing their fathers and mothers much more than ever before (if they were commuting)!

[Hagqueen]

I think a lot of people don’t really get working from home outside of a pandemic, judging from some of the criticisms.

I work from home and did before Covid, and the standard then was that if your child could not be left at home all day (eg. NT kids in secondary) then you could not care for them whilst working. Of course, Covid has changed that and there are always extenuating circumstances, but it wouldn’t be the standard with my workplace and surely won’t be for others to have your kids at home?

BUT, it can still be hugely beneficial for childcare reasons if you eradicate commute times and if your role allows for it, incorporate flexi working.

I really hope that everyone who can, gets the benefit of wfh if they want it going forward.
I personally have had so much time back, and I love the being able to use my breaks to do household things to further free up weekends and evenings.

I’ve made friends in the workplace, but I’ve also made them through other things, like hobbies. I’m also friends with coworkers I haven’t met yet (who joined post covid) and the ones I only see once every couple of months :) its nice to have variety!

[MsHedgehog]

It depends on the industry. I work in London in the City, and we get trainees in every year. It is simply not possible for them to learn without being around others, without being involved in matters and conversations and having some sort of mentor.

That also applies to those who are more junior - a big part of my learning earlier on in my career was not doing the work and having it checked by others, but having discussions about problems and ways to approach it, and also being involved in discussions that had nothing to do with what I'm working on, so I can learn. None of that has been possible working from home so I do worry about the trainees and more junior employees in my firm.

With that in mind, I can fully see what the Goldman Sachs guy expects people back.

[minchinfin]

Yes, once your kids are year 5/6 up. Before that, you still need childcare.

[NoSquirrels]

It’s all very well working from home 100% when you’ve been at your company for years, know what you’re doing, know the tools, know the team, know the culture. But when it’s your first week or month or six months, it’s so so so much harder to figure out what’s what, who’s who, and to get that apprenticeship and network you need

100% this. Being a WFH employee of a company long-term, when personnel change in teams you interact with, it's hard to establish the same relationships. People default to the people they have met and 'know'. So eventually your working relationships get a bit stale. I would hate to be an employee starting work now, particularly a junior who has to learn systems and all sorts isolated from home in their bedrooms. I feel real sympathy for the graduates starting out this past year, so tough for them.

[IrmaFayLear]

I was walking along a path and a fast train to London shot past. It was empty. It was so weird as normally those trains have people hanging on by their eyebrows. When dh commuted he had to be on the platform by 6.15am to get a seat on the train - and the car park would be full by 7.

[MistakenAgain]

I wfh pre the pandemic.

Ok so what happens is...if you work part time from home and part time in the office you STILL have to pay for a full time train ticket. Single tickets only work out cheaper if you go in 2 days a week and wfh 3 days but you have to get your employer to agree and get your contract amended.

If you work full time from home your employer could quite rightfully take away the weighting. I dont know about the rest of the UK but in London there are Inner and Outer London weightings on salaries around 3-4k which is essentially to do with the location of your office and the recognition that people have to travel to work there because no one can afford to or be expected to live in central London

[Globe22]

Hopefully not, can't wait for my husband to go back in the office. he is working in the kitchen with phonecalls and zoom all day. its taking over and I hate it. Ok if you have a home office but not if it interferes with family life.

[CloudPop]

@MsHedgehog

It depends on the industry. I work in London in the City, and we get trainees in every year. It is simply not possible for them to learn without being around others, without being involved in matters and conversations and having some sort of mentor.

That also applies to those who are more junior - a big part of my learning earlier on in my career was not doing the work and having it checked by others, but having discussions about problems and ways to approach it, and also being involved in discussions that had nothing to do with what I'm working on, so I can learn. None of that has been possible working from home so I do worry about the trainees and more junior employees in my firm.

With that in mind, I can fully see what the Goldman Sachs guy expects people back.

Completely agree re junior people. How are the y supposed to learn to do the job sitting on their bed in their shared flat with a laptop balanced on their knee?

[Dixiechickonhols]

Definitely big saving on childcare if you have junior age children after school - they can watch tv/iPad with a snack and not interrupt while you log back on and holiday care. If you are at home you can access the cheaper and more plentiful 10-3 type play schemes not need 8-6 care. I’ve worked from home for large part of last 10 years. I liked 1 day a week in office to keep in touch.

[user1497207191]

@Hawse

I'm absolutely thrilled about the perspective to WFH long-term. My husband has just had his contract changed to reflect this new reality, and while mine has not - it looks like 'flexi' working is on the cards (where we go into the office max 4x a month for team meetings, and that's it). As a previous commuter into London, it's saving us a whopping 12k per year (yes, you read that right, each train ticket was annually around 6k), plus we don't have to leave home each day at 6.45 am for a train or get home when it's dark out. Meaning we have more time for each other, and can take care of our child properly! I think that there is a HUGE benefit to kids this year seeing their fathers and mothers much more than ever before (if they were commuting)!

Short term, yes, saving the commuting costs is a bonus, but I think there'll be a longer term wages adjustment to reduce the higher wages paid to London staff. The higher wages are paid to cover the additional costs of living/working in London. So, I'd expect, in the longer term, a trend towards wages equalised throughout the country, and certainly an end to London premium wages, especially when staff don't actually need to attend the London workplace.

[user1497207191]

Completely agree re junior people. How are the y supposed to learn to do the job sitting on their bed in their shared flat with a laptop balanced on their knee?

Yep, professional firms such as accountants, solicitors, architects, etc., train their trainee/junior staff in house, so they need to be in the office, alongside their more experienced/qualified trainers/mentors.

You can't have a few trainees in the office if there's no one there to train/mentor/monitor them.

Even qualified/experienced professionals need to be "inducted" into new firms to learn their policies/procedures and build working relationships.

[Mally2020]

I think WFH will still be more prominent then before covid , some employers will go back but not all, and some will go back but with rotational WFH and office working.

[Bibidy]

I work from home and did before Covid, and the standard then was that if your child could not be left at home all day (eg. NT kids in secondary) then you could not care for them whilst working. Of course, Covid has changed that and there are always extenuating circumstances, but it wouldn’t be the standard with my workplace and surely won’t be for others to have your kids at home?

Completely agree with this.

Before the extenuating circumstances of COVID, none of the places I have ever worked would have accepted someone working from home whilst also looking after small children. Doing the school run, fine. But not being at home looking after children who are too young to just do their own thing while you crack on.

[MistakenAgain]

Once I decided to do permanent wfh you I could claim travel expenses for odd days in the office for meetings.

It is fine when you have the same colleagues but when new ones start in the office it can feel a bit like you don't know each other.

However there was a vv interesting article in the Telegraph quoting the railways saying they are likely to run fewer weekday services because 'it has taught them that more services do not make them more on time, it clogs up the lines and having less is more punctual, there will be a greater emphasis on comfort, and they do not see demand returning to the same level, they will do works on quieter weekdays as they expect weekends to be busier'.

All sounds good but if you read between the lines they mean charging us the same for fewer services (so they can recoup losses I presume).

[Bibidy]

I actually think people will be surprised at how many employers do want their employees back in asap.

My DP works at a recruitment firm - an old school industry - and they have gritted their teeth while their sales people have had to work from home, but on the down low they have stated that they do want them all back in 5 days a week as soon as it's possible.

[DayBath]

@NoSquirrels

working parents as it saves on childcare costs

It doesn’t, though - unless your children are at an age where they practically don’t need childcare anyway.

When childcare providers are open employers will expect you to use them and not be looking after children during working hours. That’s always been standard in WFH contracts, and I don’t see it will change.

These have been exceptional circumstances and working parents also caring for children at home are pretty much on their knees.

You're right but it will save in terms of number of hours required. No more commuting for an hour before you can pick them up. For me and my husband it means a 5 minute drive so we can collect DS at 5.05pm after clicking off. If we were both working in an office he would have to stay until at least 630pm and have his tea there.

2 hours childcare saved each day soon adds up in terms of cost savings.

[MistakenAgain]

My former WFH policy was to do a risk assessment that which also said that the employee should not have childcare responsibilities whilst wfh. All of that went out the window but at some point the policy will need updating.

[NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]

We are saving on childcare cost not by not using nursery but by cutting out commute time. For many London based people it's not unusual to have an hour long commute, so many people have gained back 2 hours a day/10 hours a week with their children.

Lots of companies are pro the new flexibility. My employer is very focussed on reducing the office footprint - I'm expecting to go back 2 days a week at most.