To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

A lot of relationships and friendships are made at work. WFH works for some, but in my opinion, not for the majority.

It will be a bad thing for me - mainly because of my situation.

Being "in the house" means I end up doing most of the house stuff. I know that says more about my OH than WFH but me being in the office meant that he had to take responsibility got things, and I feel everyone WFH automatically puts that work unconciously back on the woman's shoulders

I don't think it's here to stay or at least not for those who are serious
about progressing in their careers.

And it's definitely not possible to work while providing childcare and the sooner this misconception is knocked on the head the better.

It’s improved my life no end but it would have made be suicidal if we’d bed been living in unsuitable accommodation.

@parabloody just leave his stuff until the weekend. You have to be disciplined in not doing his share.

Fine for him if he likes it but if my employer did that, I’d be looking for a new job.

I would love to contine wfhing if I had a bigger flat. As it is, I hate not having a dedicated workspace.

I hope the London allowances disappear

^^
How nice of you

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?

I wouldn't feel happy if my employee were looking after their kids while being paid to work for me. It might be acceptable in current circumstances, but won't for much longer.

Also, while everyone insists they are 'just as productive' working from home, many people have complained of poor customer service and inefficiency from employees WFH. I'm not sure it's the 'game changer' people think it is.

@MsHedgehog

It depends on the industry. I work in London in the City, and we get trainees in every year. It is simply not possible for them to learn without being around others, without being involved in matters and conversations and having some sort of mentor.

That also applies to those who are more junior - a big part of my learning earlier on in my career was not doing the work and having it checked by others, but having discussions about problems and ways to approach it, and also being involved in discussions that had nothing to do with what I'm working on, so I can learn. None of that has been possible working from home so I do worry about the trainees and more junior employees in my firm.

With that in mind, I can fully see what the Goldman Sachs guy expects people back.

I agree. So much of what you learn is just from being around other people doing the role and not from formal training.

After September 11, it was said that no one would want to work in a Manhattan skyscraper anymore. In fact downtown businesses were forced to relocate as their buildings were destroyed. However, most still chose to stay in Manhattan. The housing market recovered.

The thing is businesses do have the right to change their minds and adapt their work practices. They can give up their lease now and switch everyone to wfh contracts but thats not a decision that is set in stone forever. If they subsequently choose to change their minds in 5 years time and ask everyone to go back into the office, how can we control that?

I think a lot of businesses are adopting this approach. Wfh is good for now with covid as we aren't fully vaccinated yet. However, this isn't a guarantee for wfh forever. For wealthier employees, this isn't even an issue- a short term move to that 6 bedroom house in hampshire and moving back to chelsea after 5 years might be expensive to us but not a big deal to them. Furthermore, they probably benefitted from the stamp duty holiday. However, I think for most people, it could be an expensive decision to switch area on the basis of wfh unless you are really flexible with jobs.

I have only read page 1 so no doubt it's already been said but it absolutely can save money for people who work mon - fri as it would certainly save me money in wraparound care.

It also means that the need to arrange working hours at opposite ends of the day for couples would be reduced so there could be less of a 'ships in the night' feel of family life for working couples.

Although I dedicate myself to work during my hours being at home still gives me so much more time and home life balance. I can start dinner prep on my lunch break and play with my baby and pre schooler. I am home the minute I log off and the mental load of not having to prepare everything for everyone being out the house all day is fantastic.

I understand that my joy in WFH does not apply to everyone even in dimilar circumstances but I like to think that now at least the option will be there. I do worry about networking but I have previously worked in a kob communicating with embassies all over the world so I know full well that online rapport can still be built up well.

I think my employer has quite a progressive attitude towards this so I'm hoping for at the very most 2 days a week in the office even well after COVID restrictions.

It is for us. We moved from London to Wales, DP (being an idiot) told me he'd checked there were jobs in his industry in the area. He hadn't. There weren't. Cue him commuting to London and staying there majority of week while I basically became a single parent for most of the time and had to manage all the unpacking despite having a disability that causes chronic pain alongside living without hot water (this issue went on for blooming months to the point I actually got a full refund from British Gas!).

Anyhow, fast forward to today and husband WFH with his London company. It's a very positive step for us. However, we're lucky ones. If you're living in a tiny flat with young children or adult children struggling to find employment it wouldn't be great. Equally, missing out on face to face meetings with people (as in real life not Zoom) isn't that healthy imo - but saying that it may be a great option for some as it has for us.

I think some people are getting a bit carried away with the ‘we’re all going to work from home forever and it will be ace!’ thing.

In reality there will be a lot more flexible working for the large firms but they will never move to FT WFH model or even a mostly WFH model. It will be 3 days in 2 days home. The reasoning being is they will kill their talent pipeline. Top grads aren’t going to work for firms who only only WFH. The firm will end up only with staff with caring responsibilities.

Perm WFH jobs will become the ‘mummy track’ jobs. Lower paid. Offices will be full of 20- early 30s of both sexes, childfree women and men of all ages.

I’d also bet that employers thinking about offering their staff the ‘fantastic opportunity’ to work from home full time perm are also working out how they can pay them less than those coming in.

As an aside, this shouldn’t be about saving on childcare because your child shouldn’t be with you during working hours outside of emergencies.

I think it will lead to a new pay/promotion divide.

It's obvious that those that are seen in the office will be more in line for better pay reviews, promotions, etc.

If a manager sees someone face to face in meetings, building relationships in the office/building and just being on hand to have that 5 minute chat in the kitchen then it's just human nature to favour them.

People can moan and groan saying they are more productive at home (that's objective anyway) but if someone, for example, in finance is sat at their desk people in the office are probably going to walk up to them to verbally answer a quick query about the accounts or check to see if an invoice has been paid/raised or hand them their expenses.

It wasnt until I wfh that I realise how much I ask colleagues for advice and feedback and just chatting (I do a job where we have a radio on and can chat while still working productively)

DH has always worked from home. We still have to pay for childcare though as when he’s working from home he’s... working. Not looking after children.

@HeyDemonsItsYaGirl

If enough people change from office-based to WFH it will have huge implications for the whole country. Many geographical imbalances will be changed if people aren't tied to certain locations for work. The housing market will change significantly and the rental trap might be less of an issue. Flexible working is brilliant for women, not just those with children.

Some businesses that rely on people commuting to work will have to adapt or close, but there will be new opportunities - meeting spaces, flexible offices, new technology for remote working.

I think it'll be a fantastic thing overall.

I agree.

I'm in the SE and the price difference between houses within a mile of train stations and houses only a few miles away is ridiculous.

Less commuting to London should also help increase business to all of the struggling high streets.

Smaller office spaces have always been available here, but not very in demand. There will now be the opportunity for them to be flexible working spaces for those who don't want to wfh.

Top grads aren’t going to work for firms who only only WFH. The firm will end up only with staff with caring responsibilities.

Exactly. What company wants that?

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil Facebook and Google are already thinking about that. if you live in texas rather than san francisco, texas wages for you!

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

I hope the London allowances disappear

^^
How nice of you

Not meant to be personal but if you aren’t travelling into London and you don’t need to live in an expensive London house, you don’t need the extra money. How could you justify it? If someone is working from the depths of Wales, it would be strange to receive a London allowance, wouldn’t it?

My DP isn't young so he won't have to worry about someone more senior taking his job or anything like that. Nor does he have to worry about his job being outsourced.
I was not boasting when I said he was specialised in what he did. It was just because I knew people would come on and say he would be replaced and I am saying that there is not a chance of that.

As for childcare, I understand it isn't ideal if you have young kids but for those who have children aged 8 and over, I think it's fine. Kids that age don't need much looking after and his company are fine with it.

Hmm I'm not sure that WFH will become a norm to be honest. Look at the development of email, blackberries, the Internet, these were arguably more important in facilitating WFH in the early 2000s and there was a pushback against WFH from large corporations like Yahoo.

I think we'll see a short-term cultural shift to it being acceptable to WFH on a part-time basis but personally speaking I think those who are buying properties far from where they work are being quite short sighted. I really really doubt companies will be happy with employees working long-term from home on a permanent basis. Look at the recent Goldman Sachs statement. Some companies do not like WFH as it means company culture can't be imbued in new hires, limited meaningful collaboration, it takes longer for projects to come to fruition, etc

How will anyone have work affairs if no-one is in the office?

I am on the fence. I love the peace of mind to focus on the tough aspects and the objective work. Problem is when you have to build a team and create relationships, you must have face to face meetings at least some of the time. It is also next to impossible to save in childcare as I can’t work if DCs are around so that is not going to be fine for everyone. Commuting costs are the main thing we are saving but I am damn sure that this will only favour those who were employed and stayed employed after lockdown. For each new contract, the businesses woukd knkw exactly how much the commuting cost was and that will reflect in the packages, brining borrowing capacity down in my opinion.
Then how many people will suffer from mental health issues if they stay stuck indoors day in and day out?