To think WFH permanently is a game changer?

[MiaMarshmallows]

For working parents as it saves on childcare costs as well as commuting etc?
DP been told he can wfh indefinitely and it's going to improve his lifestyle so much more. For everyone saying he will be outsourced, not a chance. He is very specialised in what he does and earns a very good wage for it.
One good thing to come out of all this at least.

I would love to WFH permanently but the rumour is we will be expected back in the office 2 to 3 days a week.

WFH has been wonderful for me.

In the past I've reached the threshold to be sacked twice due to the amount of sick leave I've had. All mental health related.

Since March 2020...not a single day off due to illness/mental health. That's despite a pandemic and my dad being diagnosed with late stage cancer

I think there's a genuine business case for me to continue WFH full time but management aren't interested

Companies allowing people to work from home are going have to expect some children being around some of the time.

Eh? We've already been told that as soon as schools and childcare are open from the 8th you will no longer be allowed to have primary aged children in your care during working hours. And it will be enforced as well. I might save a bit on childcare, but straight back to wraparound care they will go even if I am at home. Which hopefully I won't be.

@therealteamdebbie

Companies allowing people to work from home are going have to expect some children being around some of the time.

absolutely not, why should they?

If you manage to have childcare for LONGER before, you have no excuse for having less now

My dp is in in the morning. I'm not arranging childcare for then.

IT is great for those with the space,established careers and relationships. Not so good for new starters to integrate into a team or graduates looking to learn the ropes network and create a social life

How can WFH and saving childcare be on same sentence my employer has strict contract to not allow you to work and care for dependant same time we have monitoring tools on our PC. Work has made a large number in hundreds of employees redundant since March last year and have closed down 2 large offices. A lot of people don’t believe we have any job security now

There is a difference between a child in the house and being the only carer available for that child. It is not unreasonable at all for employers to expect childcare arrangements to continue as if you were not WFH. But it doesn't mean it won't save you money in wraparound care!

@therealteamdebbie

But what if work is one of the places you enjoy yourself? Is that not allowed now? God forbid we have cups of tea or inane chat or do anything that isn't 100% work

that's not the employer's problem

Much better and efficient to actually ..work...during your office hours (and frankly, the banter and chats don't even stop at home completely!)

and have time to spend with people through exercise, hobby and family and friends too.

I'd rather have a bigger bonus than my company spending a fortune on offices and all the trimmings. We'll still have enough meeting rooms and desks to be in the office when needed.

I don't want to be rude but I don't think you and I would get on too well as colleagues. Maybe it's the industry I work in but soft skills, the ability to make chat, to contribute towards a good atmosphere, to be pleasant to be around is also really important. And it is the employers problem if people are unhappy, not because there is something wrong with them but because there is zero opportunity to be a human being as opposed to a machine. And I don't only want to be around and talk to a sort of a self-chosen circle, I think it's good for us as people and citizens to engage more fully with the world, including the different people in the workplace.

The maddening thing is that it could be a game changer for the environment, for many working people's quality of life, for the quality of family life and good in so many ways.

Employers still need to be able to achieve on the job training by having new staff working alongside experienced staff in everyday workplace scenarios. Some employees would suffer emotionally from the withdrawal of contact with their work colleagues.

IMHO what is needed is a balanced approach to reap environmental/social benefits from less commuting but without forcing a total change on those employees left feeling isolated by reduced face to face contact. Could salaries reduce to share the travel cost saving with the employer or wfh be offered instead of a pay rise ? Could the reduction in the need for office space lead to alternative uses being found and some buildings being re-purposed ? Could businesses currently dependent on prime site office space, reduce their costs sufficiently to be able to pass on a reduction in the cost of their goods/services to others ? (not a commercial suggestion, I know )

Sadly though, I suspect that far too many people will be forced back into full time commuting because some (dinosaur) giants of the commercial world are currently vehemently opposed to the idea and shouting their opinions loudly enough to drown out reasonable opposition and coerce a business-centric government into supporting those views.

The thought that, OMG, people might spend less on travel and lunches, work clothes etc seems a very short termism argument for reverting back to the way things were. Yes, some business models may go to the wall but people will spend on other things and in other ways that fit in with an new working pattern thereby still generating revenue for the government in the form of direct and indirect taxes. Other businesses will expand, new opportunities be identified.

We shouldn't be pandering to wealthy institutions/individuals who have looked at their exposure to the business land and premises market or their coffee shop or sandwich shop or fashion chain empire and panicked.

My dp is in in the morning. I'm not arranging childcare for then

That’s fine, as your DP can make sure the children are away from your workspace. I’ve had to do that for the past 5 years on the days I’m at home and DH is working.

@MrBullinaChinaShop

Companies allowing people to work from home are going have to expect some children being around some of the time

Why? DH has worked from home for years. Absolutely his company doesn’t tolerate children being around while he’s working. We pay for childcare, just like we would when we were both working out of the house.

Again, my dp is in in the morning he doesnt work until 9. So the kids are in from when I start at 7 until half 8 when they leave for school.

companies will already have to be very firm on the days you need to be in the office

or you can imagine 80% of the workforce will "work from home" on Mondays and Fridays

There was a deep distrust against employee at home in the past, so many have stepped up and shown that a professional is just as efficient from home. The few lazy ones are generally known anyway, and never last very long.. or will be told to come back and sit 5 days a week to make sure they work as expected, how embarrassing.
Many businesses have worked just as well, or better. WFH is a very valid option, for the areas where it's possible, obviously.

I think it’ll be hard for new people starting jobs, if they can’t work alongside someone who’s training them. Imagine - first year of the new job - get up, log on, hope for the best. There’ll be no meeting the team, being shown where the kettle is, after work drinks etc. MS teams just isn’t the same.
I’m glad I’m not starting out in the world of work at this time.

Yes I answered that point above.

YANBU OP!

I have been very lucky on that front. I work flexible hours now as our work is not time sensitive, as long as it is done it doesn't matter when.

Appreciate it does completely depend on what you do as a job though as to whether you are able to effectively work around children.

Even with young children it is a gamechanger in terms of childcare. You save on commute time, so less h needed.
Also very easy to pop out for 30min to pick a primary age DC up from school and put him in front of the TV for 1h or so while you go back to your work. So basically, no after school care.
Etc.

@MrBullinaChinaShop

My dp is in in the morning. I'm not arranging childcare for then

That’s fine, as your DP can make sure the children are away from your workspace. I’ve had to do that for the past 5 years on the days I’m at home and DH is working.

My workspace is in my living room. So that isn't always possible. The 20 minutes I am alone with them after my mum drops them off in an afternoon consists of them coming to say hello and then going upstairs to get changed and get their tablets. I aren't sorting afterschool care for that 20 minutes. Just to add my work are totally OK with this and many of the people I work with are in the same boat

@NoSleepInTheHeat

Even with young children it is a gamechanger in terms of childcare. You save on commute time, so less h needed. Also very easy to pop out for 30min to pick a primary age DC up from school and put him in front of the TV for 1h or so while you go back to your work. So basically, no after school care. Etc.

Depends on your job. I wouldn’t have been able to just duck out of an executive committee meeting at 3pm to pick my kids up for example when I was working from home. I had to continue with the same childcare arrangements as I had when I was in the office.

I work in a factory, WFH is not possible.

Thank god. Personally I'd hate WFH. I need my team around me to stay motivated, I'd get nothing done home on my own.

I don't want to be rude but I don't think you and I would get on too well as colleagues. Maybe it's the industry I work in but soft skills, the ability to make chat, to contribute towards a good atmosphere, to be pleasant to be around is also really important.

I am absolutely charming at work! That's part of why I am paid for! It's a complete waste of my time frankly. I'd rather spend my time with people of my choice, than most of my days in an office contributing to a good atmosphere. I am great in the team, I am even better with clients, and I am the one who gets promoted...

As everyone else, I am only there for the pay cheque.

I was already working mostly from home pre Covid (one day a week in the office usually, sometimes two, sometimes none). Most of my team are based abroad and we see each other once a year in the flesh at most, sometimes less. I’ve never actually met my current boss in person. Believe it or not, we are a very happy and close knit team. Three of us in particular are actually very good friends, have each other’s backs and have weathered all sorts together.
Also WFH has been a game changer for my husband. He would barely have seen our daughter otherwise. The 2.5 hours he wasted every day packed on a tube like a sardine he now has back and he is both much more productive and happier for it.
And we do live in a small flat, where all three of us (husband, daughter and I) are in the sitting room pretty much all day. It works fine!

I am a teacher so no choice about WFH but I really wouldn’t want to anyway. DP won’t go back to the office until at least September from what he has been told and I think there will be some flexi for him, in that he will be able to WFH. He always was able to but only did this if DD was ill and needed looking after, thankfully this was very rare. Now he enjoys not having the commute and I think he will (if allowed) only do a couple of days a week in the office.

WFH has made DP a bit insular I think - so it’s better for him to be able to physically meet people and chat face to face.

We shouldn't be pandering to wealthy institutions/individuals

We've been doing this since the 5th century so I don't see it stopping in any of our lifetimes :)

We shouldn't be pandering to wealthy institutions/individuals who have looked at their exposure to the business land and premises market or their coffee shop or sandwich shop or fashion chain empire and panicked.
Spot on!

MrBullinaChinaShop
I did book a recurring 30min meeting to allow me to do the school run (I work with another country so meetings were rarely happing at this time anyway) - I fully agree, otherwise it is not not always possible.

@Bagamoyo1

I think it’ll be hard for new people starting jobs, if they can’t work alongside someone who’s training them. Imagine - first year of the new job - get up, log on, hope for the best. There’ll be no meeting the team, being shown where the kettle is, after work drinks etc. MS teams just isn’t the same. I’m glad I’m not starting out in the world of work at this time.

that's not exactly the experience our new starters had since the pandemic.

Kettle and drink nonsense, still there - virtual things during the lockdown, not so virtual when the lockdown actually ends.

The younger ones are so used to virtual calls anyway (zoom, facetime..), they are more comfortable than starters with previous experience.

The context of the lockdown won't be the only background.