To think there’s nothing wrong with cross breeds?

[sophialagiraffe]

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with cross breeds, whether that’s lurchers or cockerpoos. People are allowed to like what they like.

What DOES matter is where the dog comes from. But all this sneering about “mongrels” is fucking nasty and says more about the poster than the dog.

Most people don’t want a Crufts champion, they want a pet.

[quote Kiki275]@Micah poo and oodle crosses have been around for a while now and are numerous, except I rarely see any poodles of any size. They've fallen out of fashion seemingly despite being the non-shedding dream that people are after. This is just personal observation though. The token local stud poodle must be extremely busy x[/quote]
I saw a beautiful black standard poodle the other day. I have no idea why they are so rare. They have a lovely temperament and a striking look.

I wouldn't get excited about KC registration when you see the abominations that KC expect as a 'breed standard'. In my view the best thing about crossbreds/mongrels/call them what you will is that they are not tainted by the inbreeding endemic in KC show breeds that has compromised the health of so many dogs and produced such hideous extremes to satify stupid people's vanity.

I'm a groomer and the amount of times I've heard "DON'T MAKE HIM LOOK LIKE A POODLE!!!!1" from people who own a dog that is literally half poodle..

I’ve always thought that this craze for crosses is based in snobbery over poodles themselves.

People can’t even google images and see for themselves that a poodle and a cross are instinguishable on casual glance.

What they mean by “don’t make him look like a poodle” is presumably don’t give him pom poms and shave his nose. Because that’s how all poodles have their hair.

My friends has a giant poodle and everyone she meets admires her labradoodle, and can’t get their head around him being a pedigree poodle.

Yes YANBU

2 pure breds being purposely bred to create a F1 hybrid is actually ignorance of scient rather than snobbery. Mongrel is actually a mixture.
PS I'm not a breeder I just understand science and terminology.

Ignore them, they are just ignore or stupid.

@HeadNorth

I wouldn't get excited about KC registration when you see the abominations that KC expect as a 'breed standard'. In my view the best thing about crossbreds/mongrels/call them what you will is that they are not tainted by the inbreeding endemic in KC show breeds that has compromised the health of so many dogs and produced such hideous extremes to satify stupid people's vanity.

Very true.

It's sad that someone that calls themself a dog lover would actually purposely inbreed to create ridiculous features - curvy backs - bad spine and hips, small skulls with huge eyes, animals that cannot give birth naturally and need c-sections due to breeding of certian charateristics.... a bit sick really and not animal loving at all

miniature poodles are ridiculously cute aren't they. I still see quite a few.

Got no problem with a cross breed. When done right, you often get a healthier dog than most purebreeds now. However, it's often not done right, and they expect to charge you a couple of grand for it because they gave it a stupid name.

I wouldn't get excited about KC registration when you see the abominations that KC expect as a 'breed standard'. In my view the best thing about crossbreds/mongrels/call them what you will is that they are not tainted by the inbreeding endemic in KC show breeds that has compromised the health of so many dogs and produced such hideous extremes to satify stupid people's vanity

I completely agree.

However as a buyer KC is at least a good place to start when choosing a breeder. At least you know the bitch has had only x litters max, has been health tested etc., and I think there is an inbreeding coeffient now too?

Then, again, it is your responsibility to identify those breeders who are not breeding in the best interest of the breed- often quite easily done as you can examine photos and pedigrees, and see if they are breeding in a direction you don’t agree with.

Whereas if I were to buy a cockerpoo, how do I find the history, confirm how many litters and what not.

Also with a pedigree you can do your due diligence and research what the health issues are, what the incidence is for your breeder, and familiarise yourself with good confirmation and the like. Crosses aren’t documented in the same way.

For example as pp said I wouldn’t touch a merle breeder with a bargepole, kc reg or not.

There are just as many shitty breeders of pedigrees as there are crossbreeds. And i used to be of the "crossbreeds with stupid names are bad" but do you know what, if that dog fills someone's need why is it bad to breed it as long as it's done responsibly.

Look at what pedigree breeders have done to cavaliers, pugs, and German shepherds then tell me that a straightforward well bred cross between a poodle and a cocker is a bad thing.

@bluebluezoo
Not to say that all pedigree dogs are angry and aggressive, but if you had say, 200 dogs (100 pedigree and 100 cross breed,) and 12 of them are a bit aggressive, 10 of them will be pedigree, but only 2 will be cross breed

That's really interesting, do you have the link to that research?

That's really interesting, do you have the link to that research?

You’ve tagged me, it was @littlepattilou that posted the original

It is more of a cross breed issue because if you get a KC registered pedigree you know the mum hasn’t had more than x number of litters.

Hmmm, yes and no.

People can register say, 4 litters of cocker spaniels - but they can also let the bitch have numerous un-registered litters of cockapoos in between.

Because the cockapoos can't be KC registered, the KC will have no idea that the litters exist.

Being KC registered sadly has very little to do with animal welfare these days. Very few KC-registered litters come with breeding restrictions and it's very easy to have a litter of KC registered puppies from un-tested parents with dodgy temperaments.

but do you know what, if that dog fills someone's need why is it bad to breed it as long as it's done responsibly.

The problem is that it isn't being done responsibly though. Responsible? Responsible?

Responsible?

Anyone who thinks that vast majority of puppies - poos/doodles etc are responsibly breed are simply deluding themselves because they don't want to face the truth that their actions have consequences. Their money spent is what directly fuels breeding bitches misery.

Sorry @blue**@bluebluezoo

@littlepattilou - link to that aggression research you are citing?

To be fair to @littlepattilou they did say it seemed that way, based on their experience. They didn't try to 'cite' anything.

Seemes pretty clear to me that they were offering an opinion...

I'd bloody love a Poodle, they're so intelligent and properly madcap

Rather a blanket statement. Some breeds do not cross well with others. Others are fine. I adore Lurchers.

If they know anything at all about dogs, they'll know the difference between a cross breed and a mongrel. They do know the difference, they just like the opportunity to sneer at people who haven't done things like they have

Mongrel: dog whose parents were different breeds.
Cross breed: dog whose parents were different breeds.

So, can you explain the difference? Apart from paying thousands for a dog called a crossbreed instead of a mongrel.....

Lots of issues actually.

Backyard breeders making money out of dogs when they don't know what they're doing

Puppy farms

People paying £££s for puppies and crying to the vet they can't pay their bills when the pup gets sick.

But no, there is nothing wrong with crossbreeds as such.

I don't think it's about keeping people in their place or snobbery at all, with most people (obviously a few snobs though)

Concerns I see people worry about are mainly the super-monetising and the fact that that leads to abuse - of dogs, and of people who do just want a nice pet. There's something gone very wrong with the whole concept of dog ownership, breeding, etc. And the designer breeds thing totally encapsulates that.

You DON'T just have people being sold a nice pet. You have a lifestyle being sold. A pup that would have been a pleasant looking cross breed is now given a Name and is presented as a Desirable Thing that is worth, ooooh so much more than a 'mutt'. The end result? A LOT of people who should be nowhere near dog breeding getting pound signs in their eyes = puppy farms on a scale larger than you've EVER seen before, horrible backyard breeding of totally random dogs (in itself fine) and then these dogs being touted as 'newbreedX' - and the start, once again, of the shitty process of humans fiddling and fiddling with selective breeding of dogs to enhance certain characteristics and here we go again on the road to creating a whole new stable of effectively deformed dogs - as well as enhancing the deformed 'pure' breeds we already have.

There should be a complete ban on bracephalic (?sp) breeds such as French bulldogs and pugs.
Dogs have ALWAYS been seen as a status symbol but now they're a lifestyle accessory at an absolutely nuts level.
Dogs suffer.
Dog thefts now - insanity.

Dogs have become lifestyle props.

I don't think the word mongrel is derogatory (although I can imagine some snobbish person using it as if it was) but I don't think it means the same as cross-breed. To me a mongrel is a mixture of 3 or more breeds, and a cross-bred is only two. If I had a mongrel, I'd be very happy to call it one and for other people to call it one. If someone specifically asked what breeds were in the mix I'd tell them (if I knew), but if someone just asked "what kind of dog is that?" I'd say it was a mongrel.

There should be a complete ban on bracephalic (?sp) breeds such as French bulldogs and pugs.

How would that work in practice? Neuter all the existing dogs of those breeds so they died out? Cross them with longer nosed breeds to ensure their puppies were healthier? Would it be illegal to own one that has already been born before the law was passed, and if so, what would happen to them?

It’s not being snobby it’s just thinking you are an idiot to pay a stupid amount of money for a frug or a doodle or one I saw recently a huskador.

Those where all dogs that would be given away or sold for vets fees from ops litters but now majority breed by byb seeing pound signs. Yes you get a few who health test their poodle and their Labrador but they are not the majority.

I’m seeing it in cats too kittens pure moggies (notice how that’s acceptable but mutt isn’t) £300-£600!!

There is nothing wrong with mongrels but paying thousands for them is a bit odd. My dog is a proper old fashioned mongrel quite literally a Heniz 57 and they are quite hard to come by but the healthiest dogs you will ever find.

I’m seeing it in cats too kittens pure moggies (notice how that’s acceptable but mutt isn’t) £300-£600!!).

I have a rescue cat. She’s a grey tabby who produces ultra fashionable grey kittens.

For the first two years of her life she was locked up in a house on her own, having litter after litter. Eventually she was dumped on a rescue, presumably because she couldn’t have more kittens.

She was seriously underweight and terrified of normal household noise. It took us 3 months to get her out from behind the washing machine, she came out to eat at night when it was quiet.

This it what happens when people put animal fashion first and don’t think what happens to the breeding animal.

There’s a puppy farm facebook page I came across once. Very slick, lots of positive comments. Lots and lots of people getting excited that their pups might be littermates. Not one question about the mum.

@VanillaAndOrange

I don't think the word mongrel is derogatory (although I can imagine some snobbish person using it as if it was) but I don't think it means the same as cross-breed. To me a mongrel is a mixture of 3 or more breeds, and a cross-bred is only two. If I had a mongrel, I'd be very happy to call it one and for other people to call it one. If someone specifically asked what breeds were in the mix I'd tell them (if I knew), but if someone just asked "what kind of dog is that?" I'd say it was a mongrel.

There should be a complete ban on bracephalic (?sp) breeds such as French bulldogs and pugs.

How would that work in practice? Neuter all the existing dogs of those breeds so they died out? Cross them with longer nosed breeds to ensure their puppies were healthier? Would it be illegal to own one that has already been born before the law was passed, and if so, what would happen to them?

The Netherlands are trailblazing for this - they've introduced various bits of legislation forbidding the breeding of animals in a way that harms their health and welfare. It's still early days but for example they propose withholding pedigree certificates from brachycephalic breeds if the parents do not pass an independent vet check to assess that their muzzle is of a required minimum length. They also aim to set up a separate registry for outcrosses with the intention of introducing for e.g longer muzzle lengths.