To want to scream at the misuse of reflexives?

[Whatisthisfuckery]

ARGH!

Where did it come from? Why do people do it? I’m pretty sure it’s a recent thing where people are writing such abominations as ‘please contact myself on...’ or ‘I’d just like to invite x and yourself to...’ No, if you call me ‘yourself’ I’m not coming.

Do people think it makes them’ sound formal or something?

My DS’s form tutor has done it every time she’s emailed me, then today on a video catch up she did it in speech. I’m not sure my face didn’t give me away. I’m sure I visibly cringed, I might have even put my head in my hands. There is no polite or acceptable way to tell your child’s teacher that her incorrect use of language makes you want to repeatedly bang your head against the wall in frustration.

It’s entirely ridiculous and irrational, but AIBU to want to curl up in a ball on the ground and rock backwards and forwards when somebody uses a reflexive where they shouldn’t?

Grammar was terribly taught when I was at school. My parents couldn't help much as they had their schooling disrupted by the war, then went into employment at 14.
Yet I still see posts and written material from people younger than me who cannot grasp the basics -
"Tried this (MLM) protein shake yesterday, and this one today. Their great."
"Waiting with baited breath to hear what Boris says"
"To sign up for the yoga class please contact myself or Angela."

In a former life - staff used to compose letters for me to sign.
I refused to sign things like:
'Further to my meeting with yourself'
'Kindly sign and return the form to ourselves by 20th March.
It still makes me cringe now...

@banivani I think it's when you're speaking with or emailing someone who is Anglo-English and they have said 'myself' fifteen times in a brief chat, used incorrectly, that is the annoying thing. We've a Scottish branch at work and the Hiberno-English use in speech isn't annoying. I have noticed that my Scottish colleagues tend not to write 'myself' when it should be 'me' or 'I' though.

I call it Estate Agent Speak

It always brings estate agents to mind for me too, Lanique. They are responsible for some terrible crimes against language.

I hate this too. People do think it makes them sound professional. It does not.

I'm with you on this. The problem is that when incorrect grammar is used by people in positions of authority its misuse is perpetuated. The same with social media influences and their communication with their followers. There is only so much that can be attributed to predictive text.

I remember when DS was at primary school, where his teacher's grasp of written English left something to be desired. The temptation to get out my own red pen and correct her comments was really hard to contain.

@pigsDOfly

Oh this drives me mad as well.

Back in the 70s I used to work as a receptionist in a large company.

Every lunchtime the secretary of one of the middle management men would ring down and tell us, 'If you get any calls for Mr Jones or I, we'll be out to lunch for the next hour'.

She did this every single day at the same time and we never ever had any calls for either of them. I think it made her feel important and the mangled grammar made her think she was being terribly posh.

It's the same with myself/yourself. People are uncomfortable with using 'me' because their grammar is poor and 'me' is perceived to be a bit 'common' somehow.

Unfortunately, they just end up sounding a bit thick.

I do agree that there is a weird aversion to using "me".

I think rather than a case of sneering at peoples’ poor grammar from a position of privilege, which I don’t hold BTW, it’s actually the case that we see threads bemoaning poor grammar on forums like this because it’s so frowned upon to correct it IRL. As soon as you correct someone’s grammar you’re accused of being a snob, and what about if that person hasn’t had access to good education/has LD etc yada yada? People don’t know it’s wrong because if we tell them it’s wrong we get called names and told to check our privilege.

I agree with the PP that it’s often done to cover a lack of confidence, so why not correct, kindly of course? It’s uncomfortable to be corrected but it generally only happens once, it’s much worse to have people cringing and sneering at the same mistake over and over again.

YANBU at all OP. It really grates.

YANBU
My son’s primary teacher makes some dreadful errors with English grammar so I often wonder if she’s teaching him the Irish grammar correctly, as I have no way of knowing?

Luckily, DS (10) is a clever clogs when it comes to grammar and he’ll often spot silly errors in his textbooks. At least he’s also well mannered enough not to point out the teacher’s mistakes to her.

I don't get the I/me confusion.

Just take the other person out of the sentence and say it out loud and see if it sounds right.

That said, I blew both my DH's and my DD's minds when I explained it like that, so I suspect it isn't taught that way much.

It's the same as the 'there's'

There (or Where) for a place has 'here' in it. 'Here is a place'
Their for people has an I - 'because I am a person.'
They're - two words because two (or more) people joined together.

@BobbinThreadbare123

You scream away, OP. It's one of my major bugbears too. You're going to attract the sneery crowd though; the 'whataboutery' from people who feel you're acting in a privileged manner for daring to speak and write properly. I have ASD and I really wish I didn't have to waste so much time on rewriting emails, posts and documents in my head so that I could interpret the actual meaning hidden betwixt the reflexive pronouns.

I'm an English language teacher. I speak and write better than most. I don't, however, feel the need to start the third thread this week sneering at other people's less than perfect English. As for whataboutery, your own post is full of it.

You know where this comes from. People being shamed for the way they speak and/ or write. Knowing that they are being judged and mocked and that snobbery is alive, well and thriving on a steady diet of taking the piss out of people's imperfect SPAG.

If I saw someone reacting to a clumsy phrase I’m sure I visibly cringed, I might have even put my head in my hands I would think them an absolute idiot, far, far more so than anyone using "myself" where "me" would have been better.

@Lockheart

YANBU at all OP. It really grates.

So stop cringing and sneering, for goodness sake. I can't stand bullies who pretend they are trying to help.

@Whatisthisfuckery

I think rather than a case of sneering at peoples’ poor grammar from a position of privilege, which I don’t hold BTW, it’s actually the case that we see threads bemoaning poor grammar on forums like this because it’s so frowned upon to correct it IRL. As soon as you correct someone’s grammar you’re accused of being a snob, and what about if that person hasn’t had access to good education/has LD etc yada yada? People don’t know it’s wrong because if we tell them it’s wrong we get called names and told to check our privilege.

I agree with the PP that it’s often done to cover a lack of confidence, so why not correct, kindly of course? It’s uncomfortable to be corrected but it generally only happens once, it’s much worse to have people cringing and sneering at the same mistake over and over again.

Give an example of how you'd "kindly correct" an adult making a grammar mistake. However "kind" you think you're being, the reality is you'd belittle and humiliate, and make them feel like they never want to open their mouth again.

@MyFloorIsLava

Myself thinks that yourself is unreasonable. Itself doesn't sound stupid at all.

(Fully agree!)

Baha

Quote PigsDOfly:
Every lunchtime the secretary of one of the middle management men would ring down and tell us, 'If you get any calls for Mr Jones or I, we'll be out to lunch for the next hour'.

..because it is after 'for' in your example 'me' is correct but strictly speaking it would be correct for her to say, 'Mr Jones and I are going out for lunch' ....it sounds a bit stilted though so people would tend to say 'Mr Jones and me'

[quote BobbinThreadbare123]@banivani I think it's when you're speaking with or emailing someone who is Anglo-English and they have said 'myself' fifteen times in a brief chat, used incorrectly, that is the annoying thing. We've a Scottish branch at work and the Hiberno-English use in speech isn't annoying. I have noticed that my Scottish colleagues tend not to write 'myself' when it should be 'me' or 'I' though.[/quote]
No, the Irish usage makes perfect sense within Hiberno-English grammar so to speak. I use the Hiberno-English way myself, but the sort of Anglo-English usage described here grates on me too to be honest. Not as much as the intrusive R in vanillar essence or the "m and I" thing.

I just want to make sure we're leaving the Irish out of it! And the Scots.

I actually cringe when my boss says things like ‘can you send the email to Bob
By God, I can't even imagine what it is like to bothered about this! Remarkable!

People don’t know it’s wrong Rules of language are not written in stone you know. They change over time. It will stop being 'wrong' when it becomes common place. Just likes rules of etiquette have changed - look at an etiquette book from 1900 and see how many of those you are getting 'wrong'. I don't like it when words change meaning as often the old definition was really useful and there is not real replacement. But there you go, you can't be King Canute about this.

I think part of the reason it grates is that it is used by people who are attempting to dominate. It’s the culture it’s used in. Very different from someone making a grammatical error because they are not confident using language.

@Lanique

Totally agree. I mentioned this on a recent thread about crap grammar, in particular that of the 'trendy' variety (think gifted not given) and some smart arse poster seemed to think I was unreasonable.

You're right though - I call it Estate Agent Speak.

I heard this for the first time yesterday in a phone call from an estate agent, so it really made me laugh

Another mistake that makes me cringe is 'whomever' for 'whoever'.
eg Whomever did this should own up now.
It's appeared several times recently on MN.

Maybe it's similar to the I/me confusion. People think they sound more correct when in fact it's nonsense.

[quote katy1213]@Lanique I've always called it Call Centre Speak[/quote]
It was happening long before Call Centres existed though!

@BrightYellowDaffodil

“Betwixt”, indeed! Get over yourself!

There is nothing wrong with the word 'betwixt'.

It’s anachronistic and pretentious.

"She did brilliant." "She did fantastic." Whatever happened to -ly words?