AIBU to think that people on the lowest wages are imminently set to get financially clobbered in order to foot the bill for keeping the discretionary spending economy up and running ...

[PlebianDreams]

... even though they don't have the means to participate in it?

Tax credits and UC already announced as being cut, council tax up as well, no other tax changes announced as yet. So as of April the only targeted public revenue measures are a) one that reduces the income of already low income households and b) one that is regressive ie not linked to earnings.

We're told that we'll all need to pay for this but so far at least the payment is hitting the lowest paid hardest. This is consistent with "paying" for the financial crisis thirteen years ago when top up benefits were cut and then frozen for twelve years.

Same as then, this is to prop up an economy that people on this level of income have no meaningful way of participating in. As such it's probably a pragmatic move but it feels a bit shitty. What do you think?

@SnackSizeRaisin

Hehe OP you obviously aren't poor. £1200 a month is plenty of money to afford to eat at a nice restaurant once a month. My partner and I each earn that much. We are not entitled to any benefits. As key workers our jobs were not affected by covid. We have a nice home and everything we need. (Also, we are middle class). Don't be so condescending!

If, you're middle class, surely you've had some help in the past!

Try living on 1200 between the two of you!

@Dogdog123

Why should under 40's be the blamed for it?

What have we done to deserve 10 years of wages that haven't grown as fast as inflation?

Tuition fees increasing by 3x, house prices increasing and you needed a bigger deposit than ever to get on the housing ladder.

I tried to quote someone and didn't work.

Sorry, if I seem combative on this post but I come from a single parent family which struggled really hard during last recession on a minimum wage income. So, when I hear people say oh that people that have higher incomes, I feel like I have to show a different perspective.

@SnackSizeRaisin

Hehe OP you obviously aren't poor. £1200 a month is plenty of money to afford to eat at a nice restaurant once a month. My partner and I each earn that much. We are not entitled to any benefits. As key workers our jobs were not affected by covid. We have a nice home and everything we need. (Also, we are middle class). Don't be so condescending!

How much is that per annum? Like 20k each? You must be young, or live somewhere cheap.

My DP and I earn 33k and 37k and I’d consider us low earners, because we cannot get on the property ladder.

Guess people have different views of what constitutes “middle class”.

That will suffer*

@snacksizeraisin they are cutting 2k jobs. It's bad. But you are absolutely right. If the folded... It would be horrible

@Dogdog123

Presume you were quoting me?

Because there was an opportunity to leverage a deal. That was between March and November (pre vaccine news). The olds are all vaccinated up, good luck getting a penny from them.

1200 a month is plenty of money to afford to eat at a nice restaurant once a month. My partner and I each earn that much

Good for you. There's only one of me and I have children.

Now try it.

[quote Doomsdayiscoming]@Dogdog123

Presume you were quoting me?

Because there was an opportunity to leverage a deal. That was between March and November (pre vaccine news). The olds are all vaccinated up, good luck getting a penny from them.[/quote]
Yeah, I was trying to quote you!

I didn't mean it in a bad way, I just think when when said that under 40's have got themselves to blame. I just thought about everything that has happened in the last 10 years that effected us because we're late 20s!

I hope you can get on property ladder soon...me too. We can only hope!

Nobody under 40 should be paying anything for this - now or in the future. It's just unfair to do so as they made so much sacrifice for no benefit - everything should be paid for by the older generations increasing burden with age, as they were the main beneficiaries.

Are you saying that the under-40s took all the hits, while the older generations continued with their lives, continued to socialise, completely unaffected with the restrictions? And that we could have continued to run everything as normal, and the only people to suffer in that scenario would be those over 40?

The measures taken weren't to save elderly lives, they were to stop the sick elderly swamping the NHS, and so everyone is a beneficiary of that.

I agree in principle that the worst off will suffer most from the impending recession and however this past year is paid back.

Im not so convinced about the injustice of the restaurant thing - they aren't (weren't) keeping pubs open for the punters , but for the staff. Hospitality workers are in the whole low paid, and keeping them open kept them in work - reducing furlough or benefits required

@MereDintofPandiculation

Nobody under 40 should be paying anything for this - now or in the future. It's just unfair to do so as they made so much sacrifice for no benefit - everything should be paid for by the older generations increasing burden with age, as they were the main beneficiaries.

Are you saying that the under-40s took all the hits, while the older generations continued with their lives, continued to socialise, completely unaffected with the restrictions? And that we could have continued to run everything as normal, and the only people to suffer in that scenario would be those over 40?

The measures taken weren't to save elderly lives, they were to stop the sick elderly swamping the NHS, and so everyone is a beneficiary of that.

Without sounding too horrendous. This is a slight misnomer.

If the NHS becomes overwhelmed, sure younger people would die, but it would massively disproportionately affect older people. They just wouldn’t take anyone over a certain age, it would be palliative from home/care home.

@PlebianDreams

It will be the middle class who are hit hardest, as usual. The ones who are entitled to nothing but foot the bill for everything

Maybe. But as of now, today, the only people who are taking a hit to their household income are the lowest paid.

This is untrue as those furloughed have 80% of their pay called at £2500. So if they usually earn eg £5000 they only get £2500 and their outgoings may well be higher than the £2500.

Its just the £20 topup stopping for UC claimants it was never an ongoing thing. My tax credits aren't getting cut. They actually go up every year. And people on full benefits don't pay council tax and others get a reduction if their incomes low.

@SeasonFinale

Sure there will be some higher earners on furlough. But the vast majority are low earners. Not many in hospitality on 5k/month.

Bye then OP. Enjoy your night - maybe try Twitter for a spat?

If my wages get cut I get more tax credits and housing benefits but my colleague who has a husband so they have 2 incomes gets nothing if her wage is cut. I'm winning in the situation mine will just be made up by extra benefits. People loosing out are people earning too much to claim.

I am not middle class. I am no class as an immigrant not fitting into brackets. 🤷🏻
I was for years on nmw. It's not easy, but even though it stinks it is now everyone's responsibility and in everyone's interest to pay somehow to not have a proper collapse.

@PlebianDreams

You know what, I'm done.

This site is supposed to be by parents for parents.

It's kind of always been by the middle for the middle class though.

I mean I know this, so not quite sure why I even started this fucking thread. As though any fucker on here would understand it. As though any fucker on here would even half engage with notions of structural inequality or indeed anything that goes beyond "well I'm quite happy OP, why aren't you".

I guess it doesn't matter much because no fucker who has any influence at all is going to be troubled at the thought that there are lots of vapid clueless middle class arseholes spouting lots of vapid clueless middle class crap on a website for self identifying vapid middle class arseholes. And the world will turn.

I know times are tough for you! I understand why you're angry and annoyed because it is terrible being in that situation.

Trust me, I've suffered and and I get where you're coming from.

I hope things do get better soon for you

Lots of people have given reasonable input OP, you are choosing not to listen and to play the victim. Yes it is shit for you, I have been there, it is also not the case that only those on the lowest wages are the ones who will 'suffer'.

Should people who received furlough and self-employed grants be taxed at a slightly higher rate for the next few years? The government kept their jobs/businesses going. Potentially £5k per month for a household if two people were furloughed.

@DianaT1969 no. For a start many haven't received their full wage, so they are already 20% down (or more if capped), and it's likely that those who had a combined furlough income of £5k will be hit by tax rises anyway.

it isn't going to come from the Cayman Islands, that's for sure!

And this is how the rich have always flourished, by setting the lower classes at each other’s throats.
Because otherwise it’s revolutions and guillotines.

Arguably there will be a large number of folk that were furloughed and do not have a job to go back to so it would be doubly unfair to ask them to pay back when either unemployed or working a job for lower pay.