AIBU to think that people on the lowest wages are imminently set to get financially clobbered in order to foot the bill for keeping the discretionary spending economy up and running ...

[PlebianDreams]

... even though they don't have the means to participate in it?

Tax credits and UC already announced as being cut, council tax up as well, no other tax changes announced as yet. So as of April the only targeted public revenue measures are a) one that reduces the income of already low income households and b) one that is regressive ie not linked to earnings.

We're told that we'll all need to pay for this but so far at least the payment is hitting the lowest paid hardest. This is consistent with "paying" for the financial crisis thirteen years ago when top up benefits were cut and then frozen for twelve years.

Same as then, this is to prop up an economy that people on this level of income have no meaningful way of participating in. As such it's probably a pragmatic move but it feels a bit shitty. What do you think?

Hi OP I think you are right in that benefit claimants will suffer yet again.
However I also think public sector workers will receive next to no wage increase for the next few years. I work in NHS so just come out of a 3 yr pay deal that wasn't great and can't imagine a good deal on the table come April, Covid or no Covid.
I think the tax rate will increase though. This money has to be replaced somehow but I agree it's shit that it's always the people at the bottom who have to suffer most.

Agree with you @thedogscollar, public sector wages are bound to be cut as they were previously. And ofc people on the lowest few grades of the public sector pay scale are also UC recipients so a double whammy for them.

We're all going to suffer the fallout of the government's current blank cheque writing spree. I'm afraid I'm going to be totally grim. I've been saying this for a while but it doesn't seem to land anywhere that lockdown is insanely expensive and we're going to be paying the price for decades to come

We are all going to suffer and many of those that will have also had no support from the government and have already been screwed due to lockdowns.

I guess we'll see where it lands. So far it's already landed on the lowest paid.

As I say it makes sense for the government. They want people to go out and spend to keep the economy afloat. By that they mean those who have cancelled two or three long haul holidays and who have saved commuting costs by working from home.

People on the lowest rungs who have worked throughout and spent the same, not even saving on bus fares, aren't a consideration in this. They didn't spend a lot anyway, more than they needed to, so cutting their household budget isn't going to have much of an impact on the economy. They'll still have to find money for the things they need anyway whether that's payday loans or whatever, so we'll still get the VAT regardless. It will just be more shitty for them.

I think you’re right, people on the smallest incomes are always the most affected by financial crises.

It will be the middle class who are hit hardest, as usual. The ones who are entitled to nothing but foot the bill for everything

@PinkFondantFancy

We're all going to suffer the fallout of the government's current blank cheque writing spree. I'm afraid I'm going to be totally grim. I've been saying this for a while but it doesn't seem to land anywhere that lockdown is insanely expensive and we're going to be paying the price for decades to come

Rich people will not. Rushi and Co. will see to that.

Yes absolutely but it feels more galling this time around somehow.

I mean, I get that non essential businesses had to close and I get that they need support.

But we have restaurants that charge £25 for a main course. Obviously someone working in a factory would never be able to eat in one of those places.

Those restaurants have rightly been supported by central and local governments. And people working in factories, who have been working through the pandemic, are right now having their UC cut and their council tax raised in order to pay back the money that the government gave those businesses. Even though they will never eat in them.

It will be the middle class who are hit hardest, as usual. The ones who are entitled to nothing but foot the bill for everything

Maybe. But as of now, today, the only people who are taking a hit to their household income are the lowest paid.

I don't think we are all going to suffer, as some have said. I suspect pensioners will be protected as the core Conservative demographic. I'm not necessarily arguing that's wrong - I'd rather see other benefits recipients share in the protection, but I don't want to see pensions reduced - but I do think that we won't 'all' see reduced income

Yy pensions are going up by a whacking amount.

Fair play, I'd take it too. But top ups for low paid workers are dropping.

It will be the middle class who are hit hardest, as usual. The ones who are entitled to nothing but foot the bill for everything

Absolute bollocks.

The lowest paid will pay more tax (I’m talking tax, not just income tax), they’re not in a position of power to negotiate better wages (thanks to those who happily supported those who crushed unions without realising the long term implications).

The economy is utterly skewed towards those who are rich, those who are hoarding wealth and have done for generations.

And thus it ever was.

Ah bless them. The middle class have been complaining for the last twenty years that they've seen a comparative drop in living standards. Conveniently forgetting that said drop is due to the rise of the international middle class squeezing their schools, houses etc so that maybe they have to run a shit second car in order to budget for private school and omg that's such an imposition while completely ignoring the class beneath them living on £8.74 ph with no allowance for between job travel feeling the force of a Manolo Blahnik on their human face forever. They've never understood it.

The public sector and the poorest in society, those are the ones that always pay the price under the Tories. One of the reasons the NHS has struggled so much the last year is because of the under funding over the last 12 years. Austerity left it in terrible shape.
I have no doubt Bojo and his mates will kick the NHS and Schools in the teeth.

@PlebianDreams

Yes absolutely but it feels more galling this time around somehow.

I mean, I get that non essential businesses had to close and I get that they need support.

But we have restaurants that charge £25 for a main course. Obviously someone working in a factory would never be able to eat in one of those places.

Those restaurants have rightly been supported by central and local governments. And people working in factories, who have been working through the pandemic, are right now having their UC cut and their council tax raised in order to pay back the money that the government gave those businesses. Even though they will never eat in them.

They might never eat in them but that is not the point. We don’t support restaurants in order to have nice places to eat, we support them because we need them to 1) pay tax and 2) employ people, directly (waiters, cooks...) and indirectly (suppliers, accountants... ). So the people in factories you are referring to might not eat there but they benefit from the restaurant not going under.

It will be the middle who will be squeezed just as much. By squeezed middle, I mean those who are in the bracket of the £20-35k bracket (surprisngly many of these will be public sector workers), not being able to claim any top ups, barring child benefit, will be maybe paying back student debt, a workplace pension, and now be paying more tax. I can imagine many paying more for nursery placements/childminders because they are all running at a loss, losing some of the very few perks they might have such as subsidised parking due to council cuts, and will also be subject to higher costs of presscriptions, dental treatment, council tax etc. Some of the middle earners who will suffer may also be just getting back afloat after lockdowns- not all self employed people could benefit from any grants at all.
Don’t get me wrong, it will be a crippler for lower income families too, and the job market won’t help but the proposed tax hikes and cuts won’t help anyone but the really high earners, such as those earning about £50k. Lets keep some realistic view on just how many people will be affected by this, and it won’t be just lower earners

OP, when you mean cuts to universal credit, do you mean ending the £20 weekly top up? Or are they making cuts beyond this?

I think it's cost of living increasing is going to impact most on lower incomes as well. We're seeing it with utility bills increasing from April.

People who are middle class have the ability to tighten their belts in austerity but people who don't have the ability to do that are the ones going to suffer.

Ok I get that but can you see how crackers it sounds for people who can't afford to eat in restaurants paying to keep them open. When they're closed.

Kind of feudal, no?

@PlebianDreams having just read your last comment. There is a group of people between the minimum wage earners and pony club set- please try and remember that not all the squeezed middle who can’t claim any support/help don’t all earn private school money 🙄🙄🙄

the only people who are taking a hit to their household income are the lowest paid

People taking a hit to their income:

• everybody paying council tax (so not the ones exempt)
• people on furlough (or not) having had a 20% pay cut.
• people made redundant as no work in some industries (tourism, hospitality, art, entertainment...) some low paid, some well paid.
• people having to take time off unpaid for isolation, homeschooling etc.

On the other hand, I believe people out of work in receipt of benefits have not had any financial impact since last March. (or have they? I don’t believe so but please correct me if I am wrong)

But we have restaurants that charge £25 for a main course. Obviously someone working in a factory would never be able to eat in one of those places.

Erm. Not "obviously" not all jobs in factories are extra low pay. someone working in a factory could very well be able to afford to go to them once a month. You can even on minimum wage FT.

ah bless them. Was interested in this discussion until you showed yourself to be one of 'those' posters.

@PlebianDreams

Ok I get that but can you see how crackers it sounds for people who can't afford to eat in restaurants paying to keep them open. When they're closed.

Kind of feudal, no?

Well it sounds more crackers to let the workers starve when they simply can't work. They are not paying to keep restaurants open. Many will not survive this. We are all paying to keep the people from having 0 income and hopefully, hopefully if they are lucky, a job in the end of this