We did not end freedom of movement. The only people we ended fom for is ourselves and our children.

[Kendodd]

I don't know why we would celebrate this.
The children of our EU friends living here still have their fom, when they leave school they'll be free to live and work in any one of 31 countries (I'm pleased for them) our children won't be. I've heard 'EU passport holder' is starting to appear on CVs now as it makes people a more attractive employee in certain sectors.

Oh and I grew up in one of the most deprived areas in the country on state benefits attending a failing school. I made use of fom in my youth and it gave me opportunities young people in my situation won't have anymore. It's not just for rich people.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-supporters-least-likely-to-take-up-covid-vaccine-among-voters_uk_603763d0c5b67259f893d5c7

Believe it or not, some give precedence to the national perspective rather than how a decision may impact them and their families individually

Turquoisewaters who voted leave seems to think that remainers voted to stay in the EU for selfish or at least self centred reasons whilst leave voters were altruistic and voted for a national perspective of what she considers betterment of the UK presumably.

So how have things improved for the UK as a result of your vote Turquoise? What national perspective did you have in mind that remainers didn't when you cast your vote?

I wonder where the poster must live if installing security bars on your windows is even a thing

Security bars and alarm systems are installed in homes across most cities in the UK (perhaps not so much in Lapland)

Some people appear to live a very cocooned life and (I'll say it again) they should go out more

Security bars and alarm systems are installed in homes across most cities in the UK

Nonsense. I lived in se15 Peckham for 20 years and none of the houses I lived in or anyone I knew had bars or gates.

Leave voters were less likely to take the covid vaccine

Why are we bringing the Covid vaccine into the FOM discussion?

Also (again) how can we know who the actual Leave voters are?

QuentinInQuarantino
I'm not sure where you read that but then why would they move production to Europe? And this suggests they are having a boon.

The same article as you, I thought, from in-Cumbria - logo at the bottom of the first image you posted up thread.

You have also posted;
And while in-Cumbria understands Brexit was not, directly, part of the reasoning behind the decision...

From the company's Half Year Report 23 February 2021:

Strong profit performance driven by increased demand for cleaning, dishwash and aerosol products outweighing weakness in laundry products...

Factory footprint (Barrow): production at our Barrow, UK powders facility ceased as planned in October 2020, as part of the consolidation of laundry powder volumes from three plants to two. The closure of the Barrow facility represents the sixth facility closure in the last five years, demonstrating our relentless pursuit to rightsizing our manufacturing cost structure for the needs of the business.

In the UK, revenues of £74.1m were 10.0% lower versus prior year. This decline was entirely due to contracts lost in the prior year, mainly in laundry categories. Sales grew 2.5% versus prior year excluding contract losses. Cleaners, which represent 35% of total sales, grew 15.7% versus prior year due to Covid-19 related demand and contract wins. These gains could not offset laundry products, which are equally important to the overall business mix, which were negatively impacted by contract losses as well as the general market decline for this category caused by Covid-19.

Seems to back-up the statement I posted from in-Cumbria -

McBride has blamed Barrow factory closure on a fall in demand for the laundry powders, with the detergent market shifting toward liquid – forcing the company to examine its manufacturing footprint and ‘realign this in order to remain competitive’.

Why do you think they closed this warehouse in France as well? Brexit?

Logistics footprint: good progress is being made on changes to our warehouse network and the implementation of our transport management system. We have closed our warehouse in Guesnain, France this month and the move to a more strategic 3rd party location for our German inventories is scheduled for the end of March 2021.

www.investegate.co.uk/mcbride-plc--mcb-/rns/half-year-report/202102230700039615P/

On my list of...400 000?

I have challenged over 210,000 of the job losses on the list already - you haven't come back to me with any further details - stated as unknown in your link. Were any of them double-counted - included in the fall in foreign direct investment job losses on the list as well?

(It isn't my list anyway it's a link to the small business index)

You agree it's a rubbish list then?

@turquoisewaters

I wonder where the poster must live if installing security bars on your windows is even a thing

Security bars and alarm systems are installed in homes across most cities in the UK (perhaps not so much in Lapland)

Some people appear to live a very cocooned life and (I'll say it again) they should go out more

Come on now, I live in central London (an area of high crime rate in the SE) and there are very few bars on windows.

I would notice this as well, because I grew up in a country where EVERYONE has bars on their windows. Blew my mind when moved to Ireland and then the UK that people on the whole, don't have bars on their windows.

@Lonelycrab

Security bars and alarm systems are installed in homes across most cities in the UK

Nonsense. I lived in se15 Peckham for 20 years and none of the houses I lived in or anyone I knew had bars or gates.

Best me to it!

there are very few bars on windows

I see bars on windows.

But anyway, are you saying you haven't noticed any alarm systems anywhere and people leave their front doors open?

Wanting to be safe in your own home (and country) is not being paranoid

Wanting to be safe in your own home (and country) is not being paranoid

Correct. But thinking foreign governments are going to impose on you that you must keep your doors and windows is. HTH.

@turquoisewaters

there are very few bars on windows

I see bars on windows.

But anyway, are you saying you haven't noticed any alarm systems anywhere and people leave their front doors open?

Wanting to be safe in your own home (and country) is not being paranoid

So how was being in the EU akin to not having bars on windows and leaving the front door open.

Turquoise I'm really trying but I"m struggling to follow your logic.

How were we unsafe within the EU. Were you worried the EU migrants were going to rob you?

@turquoisewaters nope, none of the rental properties I have lived in have alarm systems, and if you're bar for safety is being happy to leave your door wide open - even my friend who lives in a tiny, safe, family oriented village near Welsh border doesn't do that.

@turquoisewaters

I wonder where the poster must live if installing security bars on your windows is even a thing

Security bars and alarm systems are installed in homes across most cities in the UK (perhaps not so much in Lapland)

Some people appear to live a very cocooned life and (I'll say it again) they should go out more

The only house I know of that had security bars on the windows was the Hells Angels Clubhouse

Apologies if these points have been made up thread - I read much of it but not all.

I think what people often fail to recognise is that FOM is a blessing or otherwise, depending on your point of view. So if you aspire for your children to be able to travel/work abroad etc, particularly if this was part of your own youth, then of course you see the advantages. On the other side, if you love where you live and want to remain there or within travelling distance, then you will naturally be concerned about there being opportunities for your children. Increasing competition for jobs arising from the expansion in EU immigration may well therefore lead you to think that FOM is not a good thing.

I don't think anyone should be demonised for voting for what they felt was best for their family - isn't that what everyone did?

I think the languages point is a wider matter and I don't think lack of take up can be put at Brexit's door. Lack of MFL students has been talked about since I was at uni in the early 90s. Teaching in primary (IME) is woeful - as it's not included in SATs, it's the first thing to make way in the curriculum when time is short and boosters are needed. So children arrive at secondary school with very basic skills and struggle to access the curriculum. You need to get to a decent standard to really enjoy a language (a bit like music) and there is little time to do so before options come into the mix. I am aware of some schools that push students to 'easier' subjects where they are likely to achieve better grades.

Either way, I don't think there's much point in hand wringing. Language teaching overall needs looking at; and it's to be hoped that the need for post-COVID recovery will encourage a bit of collaboration.

I appreciate that might be wildly optimistic.

the Leave campaign made it perfectly clear in 2016 and beyond there would be no issues, no one talked about the 90/180 rule or the inability to work/retire

So you are saying that the pro-Remain media haven't highlighted these issues endlessly? It's not as if people are locked up and can't hear the arguments from the other side (who have been very vocal, by the way)

Why are we bringing the Covid vaccine into the FOM discussion?

You're right.
Let's go back to taking about all the opportunities your vote has taken from our young people.

But thinking foreign governments are going to impose on you that you must keep your doors and windows is

It was a metaphor, sorry if it wasn't understood. We are talking about freedom of movement on this tread, aren't we?

Actually, some basements in and around Kensington/Chelsea have bars on windows. I think they're a handover from Victoria times. They look like a massive great fire risk to me.

@turquoisewaters

the Leave campaign made it perfectly clear in 2016 and beyond there would be no issues, no one talked about the 90/180 rule or the inability to work/retire

So you are saying that the pro-Remain media haven't highlighted these issues endlessly? It's not as if people are locked up and can't hear the arguments from the other side (who have been very vocal, by the way)

TBH concerns raised by the remain side were drowned out in a chorus of Project Fear.

People had very entrenched views on both sides, if the very dead arose and told them they were wrong, it would have been dismissed... i get that...

What i don't get is when you can see the issues staring you in the face and still ignore the realities, thats when i think stupidity rules - the most obv is the separation of NI, a sovereign party of the UK, is now effectively the 28th state of the EU and brexitiers still say thats fine, good and dandy.
We have hours of delay at Dover and thats all ok too, fish left to rot, shellfish banned...yep perfect! brexit dividend!

On the other hand, if Airbus closed down in Toulouse and relocated to UK bringing 10s of 1000s of new jobs and BMW etc did similar, then i would hope i'd have the grace to say i got it wrong, brexit is a good thing.

what was it a metaphor for turquoise?

What was forcing a vegetarian to eat meat a metaphor for?

We all want to know.

@Clavinova I don't have the time you have to debunk it all. There are myriad provable fuckups to the debacle and there are plenty of websites you could check. Fullfact is a good one. I'm a keyworker and quite busy.

All I really want is an explanation of why sovereignty is worth ANY job loss, the 200 000 you haven't dismissed or even just my sister's.

The only thing @turquoisewaters can come with is lies metaphors. It doesn't have to be anything grand. We've talked enlessly about why its shit for our young people (the topic of the thread) - I teach sixth form and they very much feel it is shit for them - nobody has told them why it isn't.

There isn’t anyone on here that can evidence or even suggest a tangible benefit of Brexit, is there? Plenty of generalisation and ‘metaphors’, but zero substance.
Brexit means Brexit, I suppose. Leavers don’t care, as it’s done, and it’s what ‘they’ wanted; they knew they wanted ‘it’, have a few suggestions of why they wanted ‘it’, but asking the question and hoping for some sort of real information as to what ‘it’ might manifest as is still like trying to nail blancmange to the wall.
The few that brazen it out here have vague metaphors, which are nonsensical and mean absolutely jack, but really understand very little. I wonder why they bother at all.

when you can see the issues staring you in the face and still ignore the realities

Problems are not being ignored. The NI issue is indeed very complex and I don't think anyone can be oblivious to that.

But people prioritise what they consider more important.

if Airbus closed down in Toulouse and relocated to UK bringing 10s of 1000s of new jobs and BMW etc did similar

How do we know that something like this will never happen? It's still early days.

.

Brexit will never be done ... it’s going to be interminable wrangles with our biggest market for decades to come.

What is it that's being prioritised? Getting Brexit done? Oh yes!