To be surprised how many parents can't afford children's footwear?

[moita]

I must have been living under a rock but: I recently started volunteering for a charity that donates coats to children who need one.

I live in a village just outside a deprived city and we have lots of requests for coats from struggling parents.

It was eye-opening. We then started having the same request: for footwear, most specifically wellies. We put out social media messages for used but good condition wellies. Lots of people donated and they were all pretty much snapped up.

I've got to say: I was surprised, naively so? I felt guilty buying my toddler wellies from the supermarket but here were parents happy to take used ones away. And a lot of the people who came to use are single mums who have fallen on hard times.

I don't know. I just feel so sad that our service is so needed.

My mum had holes in her shoes when she was a kid, and even now (I'm nearly 30), she still has a thing about ds and I always having decent coats and shoes, so we usually get them for birthdays etc.

Coats and shoes are expensive, the last time I got DS a decent coat, boots and wellies, it came to about £90, a small fortune (and doesn't include a warm hoody or jacket, a hat, scarf, gloves, thick long socks, vests, an umbrella etc, which all do seem to last longer than shoes at least). I'm relieved/grateful I can pay it, and have family who help out/see those things as a priority too. If ds wasn't an only child, I'd really struggle.

CathyTurnbull
I’ve never understood why people have children if they can’t afford to raise them - regardless of a pandemic

No one can forecast what is going to happen in life. People lose jobs, get ill etc
People might set out having a steady income savings and think they can afford to have children but it only takes one thing to go wrong and you can end up losing the lot.
Can you not see that?

Never assume it couldn’t happen to you because you have been clever and put everything in place to be able to afford children.

@unmarkedbythat

State schools should not be permitted to have strict uniform policies. They are barriers to participation. Dress codes are fine, strict uniforms are ridiculous. Schools need to be less image focussed and remember the role of state education. If I had the power, no state school would be permitted to insist on a strict uniform as opposed to a sensible dress code they could evidence could be easily adhered to by families in the lowest income decile.

I agree with this. I think all uniforms at state schools should be available at supermarkets, at supermarket prices. No blazers with trims or kilts, they can have an iron on logo if they want something specific to the school. That would make a difference to many families. And allow kids to wear trainers so they only need one pair of shoes, (if that's all their parents can afford).

I spent £160 on his branded uniform, which he wore for a term, but he’s grown a good couple of inches at least since August when we bought it.

^

And its not like he can wear a school uniform at home! What a waste of money

State schools should not be permitted to have strict uniform policies. They are barriers to participation. Dress codes are fine, strict uniforms are ridiculous. Schools need to be less image focussed

I agree. The cost of uniform is ridiculous, especially when they’re supposed to wear a fresh set every day to decrease covid risk!

My DD has to wear jumpers with logo, button up white shirts with horrid stiff collars and school tie, black socks, black shoes (no trainers or boots allowed so on wet mornings she arrives in wet socks!) Even the PE kit has logos. And she has to have plimsolls, plus outdoor trainers, plus wellies kept at school. She’s only 6! Every few months I have to replace the whole lot. I donate her shoes and PE shoes to the teacher who is very grateful as apparently lots of children can’t afford black shoes 😢

As well as being expensive the uniform is impractical. It’s a pain doing up all the tiny buttons in the morning rush to school and work. I hate ties. Black socks always seem to run out! The dresses and trousers are stiff and uncomfortable, and she manages to make holes in her jumper sleeves and seams.

I’d much prefer they specify school colours: eg black trousers or joggers, white polo shirt, navy blue jumper. Black or blue knee length dress or shorts in summer. Shoes or trainers, does sock colour really matter??

Age about 13, I inadvertently wore socks that were different shades of blue to school - one navy, one royal. Totally by accident, I’d got dressed in the dark before my paper round. The socks were the same other with, from a multipack, same fabric, ribbing etc.

I got a detention for not wearing uniform properly.

My dad refused to sign the detention form. He was a solicitor and his response to school was that the uniform list only specified “knee length socks in blue” , nowhere did it specify that they had to be the same shade of blue.

The correspondence went on for weeks.

@HikeForward

Sounds like our school (just a normal state school - albeit an academy chain which seems to have a bit of a superiority complex)

We got a big list of uniform before they started school - including a school coat and various PE items. We diligently bought everything - in the event the school coat isn’t even vaguely enforced and they didn’t do PE through the entire reception year apparently because it takes them too long to get changed (any surprise when you have four year olds in button up shirts and ties?!!).

If I’d been on a tight budget and we’d bought all that uniform unnecessarily and have been gutted.

DS also managed to lose three school jumpers in his first year (all clearly labelled with his name but disappeared off the face of the earth ).

I just imagine that happening if I was on UC - it’d be a case of ‘there goes half a week’s food budget’ every time he lost a jumper. I realise how privileged I am to be able to write this kind of thing off as an annoyance, not forcing me to choose ‘will they be fed or will they be properly clothed?’

Our school is polo shirt with colored sweatshirt all available in Asda for £4.00 for three of each. I bought pants from Matalan too. I think we sre very lucky and the children look smart.

@Casschops

Our school is polo shirt with colored sweatshirt all available in Asda for £4.00 for three of each. I bought pants from Matalan too. I think we sre very lucky and the children look smart.

Ours is the same Coloured polo shirt and jumper all available from either Asda / Matalan etc v cheap DC can wear either dark grey or black trousers or skirts , again bought from supermarket etc

With a few DC this makes it much more affordable.
There are badged / embroidered jumpers available at a local school wear shop but the jumper cost £15 each compared to £2.50 each in matalan.

I’d say about 80/90% of the kids wear non badged items.

I've also had it drummed in to me that shoes must be good quality, especially children's shoes.

My DGM's motto was that shoes and beds must be good quality. If you're not in one you're in the other. My step father has bunions from wearing small shoes.

Teachers will tell you that lack of decent school shoes is really common. Even when Asda was selling them for £12 a pair it mounts up.

Initially working in a MC area, I was shocked that a girl in my class was still wearing (too small) plastic knee high boots on very hot summer days. I ended up buying some canvas shoes that she could change into at school.

Then I went to a school in a much poorer area and half the class were in a similar situation. One boy wore wellies to school all year.

@grassisjeweled

I spent £160 on his branded uniform, which he wore for a term, but he’s grown a good couple of inches at least since August when we bought it.

^

And its not like he can wear a school uniform at home! What a waste of money

Do schools still do 2nd hand uniform fund raisers? I know it's difficult with Covid,

My friends' secondary children are expected to be in uniform when they log onto teams at 8.30am for registration!

I know people struggle at times, I have done myself whilst at uni and on working tax credits but I’ve never had to put used shoes on my child! I think it’s all about priorities.

Good for you, make yourself a chufty badge.

I agree with this. I think all uniforms at state schools should be available at supermarkets

I think if a school wants a uniform the school should provide it.

I'm old enough to remember when only private schools had uniforms in primary. Wearing jeans did not stop me learning. I also only had one pair of shoes at a time not due to money issues but just because most people only had one pair of shoes.

I know it can make things easier for parents and can save arguments but it doesn't need to be shirts and ties. I remember asking about my cousins' uniforms in Australia (early 1980s) then they had 'red, white and blue' as their uniform. So pinafore dresses, skirts, trousers as long as it was in the school colours it was fine.

On days when they had PE they had to have 'suitable clothing' but that could involve wearing a tracksuit all day.

25 years ago I was very pro school uniform. Now, not so much. My only comparator is the DC's 6th forms. DS had to wear a business suit, collar and tie. DD whatever she liked providing shoulders and midriff were covered. No difference whatsoever vis a vis their exam results.

One of mine went to a state School for secondary and one went to a specialised private school that did sport.
The state secondary school I spent £300+ kitting them out. There were no second hand uniform sales. When I asked i was told in no uncertain terms that children didn’t need to feel like second class citizens by wearing second hand uniform. Throughout the time they were there the uniform changed 3 times.
On the other hand the specialised private sports college had a thriving secondhand uniform shop that was open once per week and the children could hand in old uniform to get a further discount on any uniform they needed including footwear. The initial uniform cost me £97 including all the equipment.
A lot of the stuff you could pick up at a supermarket as well.

The difference in attitude towards uniform was so different

I agree with @Bythemillpond. Primary was leafy cofe and then independent secondaries. At neither was second hand an issue, there were regular 2nd hand sales and much swapping and exchanging between families.

I don't think it's about priorities though it's more to do with pride and if you have money in your purse for extras there is no shame and pride remains intact.

Related but off topic when my family was complete I had a well cared for, quality cot, crib, highchair, stair gates and pram. I called the local social services department and was rather snottily told "we only provide our clients with new items". The H&S argument doesn't wash because all items could have been checked. Our items were gratefully received by an investment banker!

Practical school uniform is good. But all this fuss about logos and turning small children into mini office workers ruins the point.

If I was in charge of uniform...
Infant school... Leggings, joggers or shorts in a dark colour. T shirt or polo shirt in school colour. Jumper or cardigan in school colour. Optional logo jumper or cardigan available. Trainers.
Junior school... As infant, or the addition of school trousers, skirt or dress.

Secondary. Dark bottoms. School shirt. Jumper or cardigan. Maybe a school tie. Dark trainers or shoes.

Local junior school has blazers, ties, different summer and winter uniforms... Just a normal state school.

@RosesAndHellebores

I agree with *@Bythemillpond*. Primary was leafy cofe and then independent secondaries. At neither was second hand an issue, there were regular 2nd hand sales and much swapping and exchanging between families.

I don't think it's about priorities though it's more to do with pride and if you have money in your purse for extras there is no shame and pride remains intact.

Related but off topic when my family was complete I had a well cared for, quality cot, crib, highchair, stair gates and pram. I called the local social services department and was rather snottily told "we only provide our clients with new items". The H&S argument doesn't wash because all items could have been checked. Our items were gratefully received by an investment banker!

Yes, it's all very silly in some respects.,I have no issue with having 2nd hand stuff. Private schools often have uniform sales in my experience.

We weren't very well off when mine were little so grateful or uniform sales or NCT ones. Always bought fitted Clarke's or start rite shoes for dc

On the other hand the specialised private sports college had a thriving secondhand uniform shop that was open once per week

Yy one it's the schools with the most resources who can do this. At my children's primary school the non teaching welfare staff spent a lot of their time driving round to families' houses, waking children up, making sure they were washed and dressed and taking them to school, navigating their paths through the various agencies involved with their lives and doing their best to keep them safe and educated. Nobody had the time, resources, space or inclination to wash, sort, store and make available second hand clothes.

The schools in middle class areas did all that. Schools in more deprived areas have other pressures on them.

The second hand uniform sales was run by the parents.

I am sure parents of those in secondary schools wouldn’t mind giving up an hour of their time occasionally in order to save themselves hundreds of pounds.
The clothes were washed by those handing them in and then probably washed again at home when they had been bought and the sorting was done by the children dropping them into the relevant basket when they handed them in.
I was referring to secondary schools when the uniform starts to get really pricey

Again, you need someone to devote the time and effort to organise it. You need somewhere to store it. Trust me, in neighbourhoods where people have to work hard just to keep body and soul together, where nobody's got a spare room or even a room that isn't over occupied, getting second hand uniform provision up and running doesn't happen for those and other reasons directly related to poverty.

Ofc there's always the possibility that you know more about it than I and others living it do and that all poor people are thick and lazy.

,I have no issue with having 2nd hand stuff

Most people don't, when buying 2nd hand is an active choice made in order to have more money to put in an already comfortable leisure spending pot and also when they are confident that they already display wealth signifiers eg owner occupied decently furnished house with sufficient bedrooms, car, professional job, holidays etc. It's a bit different when you have none of those and when you are reliant on social services provision.

SomewhereUpMyArse

It was an hour of your time in exchange for getting cheap uniform run by the pta and every parent was rostered on once.
In neighbourhoods that are struggling to keep body and sole together why wouldn’t they want to save money.

I know that kids shoes can be expensive. So whenever my son, put grows his, if they are in good condition, I donate them to charity.
The bad news for me, is my son is in adult sizes now, luckily they last longer. But he is 14,so just hitting his growth spurt, so I might be going to the cheaper shoe shops or ebay, I don't mind second hand, for clothes or shoes.