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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Abolishing the Monarcy.

880 replies

Helendee · 17/02/2021 12:45

Good or bad idea and reasons for your opinion?
I don’t feel strongly either way but I am curious about what aspects of becoming a Republic are more beneficial than the UK’s stable current system.

OP posts:
Roussette · 18/02/2021 22:04

Well... maybe not so frugal and streamlined if we're talking about Monaco. There's enough going on in that RF to make ours look like saints, awful tragedies, affairs, heartache, love children, scandals, running away to the circus, the lot!
Ours are really very tame.

VinylDetective · 18/02/2021 22:08

I bet you they can pull out and re-arrange just like that

If you had any clue about the amount of preparation a host organisation puts into a royal visit, you’d know how ridiculous that is. The Royal family is well aware of that which is why you never hear of a planned visit being pulled.

veeeeh · 18/02/2021 22:09

Like all of us, the Monarchy has been isolated during Covid. In gilded cages just the same.

Did anyone miss them?

If yes, why?

If not why not?

I am being lighthearted here for the record, but do wish to know.

Roussette · 18/02/2021 22:12

If you had any clue about the amount of preparation a host organisation puts into a royal visit, you’d know how ridiculous that is. The Royal family is well aware of that which is why you never hear of a planned visit being pulled

OK I take your point and apologise.

Zoom calls though, yes!

veeeeh · 18/02/2021 22:14

@Roussette

Well... maybe not so frugal and streamlined if we're talking about Monaco. There's enough going on in that RF to make ours look like saints, awful tragedies, affairs, heartache, love children, scandals, running away to the circus, the lot! Ours are really very tame.
To be fair, we are talking about UK Royals. Monaco is about the size of my fingernail in comparison to the UK, and is full of the rich who don't worry about the RF there anyway because they don't need to be supported and stay out of the limelight. Gossip is for the tabloids.

Nothing similar to the UK in my opinion.

veeeeh · 18/02/2021 22:19

@VinylDetective

I bet you they can pull out and re-arrange just like that

If you had any clue about the amount of preparation a host organisation puts into a royal visit, you’d know how ridiculous that is. The Royal family is well aware of that which is why you never hear of a planned visit being pulled.

I do understand that security and protocol are necessary for such things.

But what do they achieve apart from terror and stress for the organisers?

Please tell me about the last shindig. Pre Covid of course, I bet no one remembers or cares apart from looking at the dresses. LOL.

TipseyTorvey · 18/02/2021 22:19

@veeeeh

Like all of us, the Monarchy has been isolated during Covid. In gilded cages just the same.

Did anyone miss them?

If yes, why?

If not why not?

I am being lighthearted here for the record, but do wish to know.

No I didn't miss them. In fact I was irritated every time one of them was on the front page. There are far more serious things going on than 'Kate waved at someone' or 'Meghan said something' right now. The Queen is very old and had to isolate of course but the rest of them were no use when compared to actual nurses, care workers, doctors and teachers. How is a royal wave going to help right now?
AnarchicLemming · 18/02/2021 22:25

@Roussette

Well... maybe not so frugal and streamlined if we're talking about Monaco. There's enough going on in that RF to make ours look like saints, awful tragedies, affairs, heartache, love children, scandals, running away to the circus, the lot! Ours are really very tame.
So let's see... awful tragedies (Diana, no it wasn't an accident), affairs (Charles and Camilla), heartache (Kate getting dumped for a month and having to imagine working for a living), love children (Harry), scandals (Thingy who abdicated, Henry the 8th, Andy the paedo), running away to the (Hollywood) circus (Harry) ... OK then tame in the sense of just like the rest of us except rather more corrupt and dysfunctional? Not one of them has done ANYTHING on their own merits to be proud of.
veeeeh · 18/02/2021 22:28

Tipsy Torvey,

Well said,

I am reluctant to get in to a tit for tat since I am not a UK native, but looking on from abroad, I am amazed at some people's tolerance of the Marie Antoinette attitude now lol. They could not give a shiny sht now.
I would not swop their lifestyles for a million quid to be perfectly honest. What a fkn life.

Roussette · 18/02/2021 22:29

To be fair, we are talking about UK Royals

I know, I was only saying it in passing in the context of European royals

Roussette · 18/02/2021 22:30

Anarchic really don't agree with a lot of that but I don't want to divert away from the subject matter

AnarchicLemming · 18/02/2021 22:36

@veeeeh. We are not being allowed to miss them. They are EVERYWHERE. When are people in this country going to wake up to our media?

StoneofDestiny · 18/02/2021 22:40

You can abolish them, but they will still have their own wealth. And instead people will continue to idolise intsagram stars who really do do f all for a living

Couldn't care less - people can idolise who they want, but we aren't paying for Instagram stars upkeep, not expected to bow to them, and not watching their endless kids, cousins, aunts etc living in grace and favour apartments etc. It's the ultimate big brother house(S) situation - with a gawping public listening to drivel from non entities.

AnarchicLemming · 18/02/2021 22:41

@Roussette I was right on-subject, so it's fine, you won't be diverting.

Dismantling my arguments and proving the merits of the RF's continued taxpayer-funded existence would be very simple. If there were any merits.

rainwaterflow · 18/02/2021 22:45

Don't abolish it, just defund them and turn them into tourist puppets.

Of course the Queen is not frugal. She's one of the wealthiest women in the world, her private wealth is estimated to be a bit under a billion (and she has actively used her influence and status to try to interfere with the passing of bills and to intervene in politics to hide her private wealth), yet she's famous for paying her staff a pittance and forces the taxpayer to pay for work on her palaces when she could very easily foot the bill herself.

Do people really not understand that there's a reason the Queen's extensive team of very expensive publicists release stories and photos of tupperware to the media? Like the media would have access to photos of something as private the Queen's personal breakfast table if she hadn't decided she'd gain from having those photos made public? It's sheer image manipulation and they all do it.

Royals spent a shitton of money on media image manipulation. They have access to the best publicists in the world, and the media are happy to serve them. Charles and Camilla's publicity team have spent years and probably millions of pounds shifting their public image from gaslighting homewreckers, to starcrossed lovers cruelly prevented from marrying whose love has endured and are finally able to be together. The number of posts I've seen online "Charles and Camilla should have been allowed to marry back in the 70s." When every indication is that Camilla had no interest in marrying Charles and that Charles had multiple mistresses, and that they live separate lives now. William and Kate's media-manipulated image is normal middle class young parents, people genuinely believe Kate's doing the school run and trying to cook tea while Zooming with huge international charities, when they have a full household staff including live-in nannies and currently split their time between in TWO mansions (Anmer at Sandringham House). The Queen's media-image is frugal kindly grandmother who uses her own Tupperware. It's pure PR! Are people really that naive?

Hell Kensington Palace placed a suck-up story the other day claiming the reason William fell for Kate is because she was the one woman at uni who didn't chase him, when she literally changed dropped out of university and applied to a new one at the last minute, followed him to a remote village in Chile on his gap year, and signed up to model for a fashion student's graduation showcase because William would be in the audience, then took off the outfit she'd been given to model as she was waiting to go on and walked down the catwalk in her underwear instead, all just to chase him and catch his attention.

The press act like all her goofs and etiquette faux pas and scandals, which were far more serious than Meghan's, never happened which is Orwellenian revisionism.

The media handling of the Rose Hanbury story is the same, not just William threatening the press to censor them but his own mishandling of the story and the weirdness around the Tatler censorship.

The Queen directly financially profits (they all do) and abuses the law to cover it up. They have a thousand ways to directly financially profit from their royal status in ways where it doesn't 'count' as profiting. For example Buckingham Palace sells Royal-branded merchandise, which is literally the definition of financially profiting from the royal brand, but uses the technicality that the money goes into a specific tax-free trust set up to purchase and maintain the Royal art collection, as a way to get around the rules. Oh goody does that mean if I set up a "Rain Gucci Trust" that means if I blow my paycheck on buying Gucci handbags I don't have to pay any tax because it doesn't count as earning money? Yes the art collection is supposed to be for the nation but what do you think would happen if I knocked on the door asking to see some of it?

WonkyDonks · 18/02/2021 22:46

@Chloemol

Not abolish, they have a purpose, head of commonwealth, bring in tourists etc

It’s a far better system than a republic. Would you be happy for President Blair?, Cameron or Johnston, all of whom would stand for the role

I certainly don’t want a President Macron or Trump, that enough is a reason to keep our system

Absolutely agree. I do understand why people wish to abolish but I think the reality would be we just end up with some version of a sh*tty president that is changed every 5 years, creating instability (to an already unstable nation) The crown represents continuity. Flawed it maybe, but the alternative may be worse.
Rae34 · 18/02/2021 22:46

Abolish.

veeeeh · 18/02/2021 22:50

@Roussette

To be fair, we are talking about UK Royals

I know, I was only saying it in passing in the context of European royals

Yes, but the exceptionalism of UK is something to behold just the same.
rainwaterflow · 18/02/2021 22:52

74% don’t hear a squeak from their royal patron from one year to the next according to that link

Yep last year it came out in the press that Kate had never visited at least two of her major patronages since the day she became patron, and I remember the scandal during the early years of their marriage over Kate taking such a long time to choose her first patronage and being accused of being lazy and workshy as a result. The official response was Kate was taking a long time to choose patronages carefully so she could really think hard about what patronages she wanted to have meaningful relationships with, then she never even bothered to visit once.

Their diaries are booked six months ahead, they can’t just decide they can’t be arsed and not turn up.
There have been times in the past when royals have cancelled on short notice (Kate being a no-show at the Gala where Ed Sheeran had to be roped in as last minute replacement), and plenty of incidences of royals turning up having not read their briefing notes (William and Andrew), being ill-prepared (William and Kate), or sacking off and leaving to go shopping after 20 minutes when they were supposed to stay for much longer (Kate and her guest editing job).

They are lazy workshy grifters who con the British public via clever media manipulation.

WannabemoreWeaver · 18/02/2021 22:55

@veeeeh

This is very interesting for me, a non native UK person.

So are all the big houses, castles, hundreds of acres of land, Duchies (Cornwall), security, staff, and all the rest actually paid for from the taxpayer?

I am gobsmacked! But am sure someone will tell me that the tourism aspect and the home made organic jam from Cornwall sustains them. lol.

Cannot believe that this institution is so wealthy, and yet so lazy apart from Her Maj. But even she should see what is going on.

Yep. They pay for some stuff but take whatever they can from the tax payer and always take from the public purse if they can. So for example, when Windsor castle (private residence of the queen, no public access) caught fire, the tax payer paid for the repair.
StellaDendrite · 18/02/2021 22:56

Abolish. Now. It’s crazy that the monarchy still exists. I don’t understand why people adore them. The Queen seems like a sensible and hard working ( in some respects) women but the rest of them are very normal people.

It’s really surprising that the younger royals don’t all abdicate.

StoneofDestiny · 18/02/2021 22:56

Did anyone miss them?

That's the point - their invisibility during lockdown shows how little of worth and purpose they do - nothing to miss!

Andrew 'stands down' - no change, nothing missed
Harry 'stands down' - no change, nothing missed
Philip 'stands down' - no change, nothing missed
Fergie 'leaves' - no change, nothing missed
Diana dies - no change, nothing missed
Edward and Sophie - already invisible
Charles - still serving the longest apprenticeship known to man
William - serving the same apprenticeship!
Kate - just a clothes horse expected to look good and say nothing
Beatrice and Eugenie - invisible apart from some vacuous pointless appearances

They are not providing any service essential to the UK or people's well-being - yet are pampered and cosseted at taxpayers expense.

veeeeh · 18/02/2021 23:01

WonkyDonks

Please tell me how the Monarchy transcends a democratic society and ensures stability.

Her Maj just signs everything the PM presents to her. Has she ever objected to a Parliamentary vote on anything?

Not to my knowledge, so she is just someone who nods and stamps the decision of Parliament.

Well there are the tiaras, the vastly expensive jewels, the Royal Weddings, huge Royal Estates, ah well. That old stamp and weekly meeting are just so great for us all. Figurehead paid for by UK taxpayer to enjoy the fruits of their predecessors by accident of birth. Bless them all lol.

Roussette · 18/02/2021 23:09

Are people really that naive?

Well obviously there is a huge swathe of people that are. Not so much on this thread. I enjoyed reading your post rainwater

The thing is..... there are a huge number of the older generation who absolutely adore them, to the point of obsession. They have the plates, the tea towels, they go and wave flags, they set up camp overnight if there's a chance of catching a glimpse of them and it will sound crass, but until that generation dies out, it will all stay the same But with younger generations, I do think the mood has changed.

There's been enormous damage done to 'the brand' by Andrew who showed up the very worst of the RF, and others will say H&M too. Personally I think H&M did the best thing ever, escaping and I have nothing against them, but I know the mood out there.

Personally I think change has to come but I think though it has to be a gradual process.

WonkyDonks · 18/02/2021 23:09

@veeeeh

WonkyDonks

Please tell me how the Monarchy transcends a democratic society and ensures stability.

Her Maj just signs everything the PM presents to her. Has she ever objected to a Parliamentary vote on anything?

Not to my knowledge, so she is just someone who nods and stamps the decision of Parliament.

Well there are the tiaras, the vastly expensive jewels, the Royal Weddings, huge Royal Estates, ah well. That old stamp and weekly meeting are just so great for us all. Figurehead paid for by UK taxpayer to enjoy the fruits of their predecessors by accident of birth. Bless them all lol.

I don't think it's perfect....far, far from it. But if the monarchy is abolished I doubt that all the houses will go to the poor. Nor do I think their jewels will be divided out to the needy. Just some rich oligarchs will snap it up. I really think a huge part of our national identity will be lost and the UK will become smaller. But I hear you, it is not ideal, I just don't like the alternative.
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