How do women square holidaying in Dubai with the lived reality of UAE women?

[Bouncealot]

Never understood a friend raving about the luxury, lack of crime, cleanliness, attentiveness of hotel and retail staff, when I had watched documentaries on slave labour, especially Philippine and Pakistani people denied passports, sleeping on kitchen floors and UAEs refusal to give stats on FGM to WHO. Just listened to Woman’s Hour discussion on the Princess Latifa case. It seems not a subject for discussion when people are planning ‘sunshine breaks’.
IABU judge other women’s holiday choices and experiences?

I don't go to Dubai, but there is always a whiff of Islamophobia about these threads.

I get this too. Every single time. Would love to see some boycotting of china/chinese goods after genocide being committed there. No sorry aint gonna happen as it’s wayyyy to inconvenient.

AllDoneIn

I will never holiday there for the reasons you raised. I've talked to a few Dubai fans in the past and to be blunt they're generally in the bling / hard of thinking camp.

I was going to say something similar and risk the condemnation. I do think it attracts a certain type of person and I would hate it apart from all the issues described. I know I sound like a snob, sorry.

It's not really snobbery just pure hypocrisy. People like to look down their noses at others and pretend they're somehow superior for not participating.

In the case of Dubia people like to make a big noise about how awful it is and how they'd never support such a regime, while simultaneously supporting equally as horrific abuses themselves (through purchases/life style choices etc).

If you don't like dubai that's fine, don't go but don't pretend you're somehow better than those that do*.

*unless you are actually living a purely ethical life then ignore.

Vote with your feet. Don't holiday there and stop buying their goods.

Women can drive in Dubai thought, can’t they? I have a friend living out there who’s very happy, v affluent lifestyle. It’s definitely not where I’d like to go though!

I’d rather go on a holiday to Hades than Dubai. At least in Hell, I’d meet nice people, even relatives.

@user1654236589623652

Threads like these tend to see posters joining mumsnet just to tell us that Dubai is the best place they've ever lived as a woman, the safest you could ever be, don't believe what you read in the media, blah blah blah...

I do see the questions you've posed being raised and usually it comes down to "I'm alright Jack" and "you have to respect the abusive laws of the places you visit, who are you to judge them".

Some people don't care, some people feel uncomfortable at having it pointed out to them that they're financing abuse and then become defensive.

I agree, l have seen these responses on threads like this before. They don’t change the irrefutable facts on workers rights or women’s rights. I don’t know how people compartmentalise this when they are sitting on a sun lounger drinking a £10 beer.

@MangoFeverDream well they are promised all sorts of wonderful salaries, but they rarely materialise, if they get paid at all! I know on one of the jobs my partner was working on hadn't paid the workers for 6 months, and out of their "salary" they were having to pay for their accommodation and board. They eventually rebelled and broke the legs of one of the bosses. Don't know if they actually got paid though. Thankfully the part that my partner was working on was done and dusted by then.

YANBU OP

Dubai has never been on my wish list of places to go, mainly due to the fact it looks like a soulless vacuum of a place, albeit with v good weather!

In more recent years I've read about the appalling human rights & exploitation of foreign workers over there.

Now in addition, the daughter of its ruler being held a virtual prisoner, its most definitely a place I have no desire to ever visit, and yes I do judge those who do go there on holidays.

That video of the princess is so sad, I'm glad it made its way out & has been broadcast, she's not so hidden away now is she

The three couples who have been to Dubai that we know, are "bucket list" people who like the newest "thing", show off and try to belittle others. Dubai was built on slavery and human rights abuses, so we have no desire to go there.

YANBU. I wouldn't live in that part of the world if you paid me.

The treatment of women is shocking.

@JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil

Well people will always try and rationalise their holiday choices but what it basically boils down to is they don’t think it will impact them personally so they don’t care.

This is why on a thread a few days ago, various people were raving above how great Moscow is and they can’t wait to return despite knowing that it’s a potentially dangerous place for visible minorities (including those wearing religious symbols), openly and suspected gay people and political oppositionists.

Russia also has a huge domestic violence problems. Thousands a year. So many in fact, that certain acts of DV are now legal.

I have been to Dubai once (not my choice) and that trip served to confirm all my feelings about it. Of course there are lots of holiday destinations which have “issues” associated with them, but there is something particularly problematic with places like Dubai (and Qatar, etc).

What people need to realise is that somewhere like Dubai is basically founded on what is close to slave labour. All the workers - construction workers, workers in hotels, restaurants, shipping centres, etc - they are all third class citizens who are exploited and have very few rights. To me it almost felt like being on some strange alien planet.

Why do you think it is worse than, say, India, Pakistan, Thailand, ore Amsterdam, Canada, Australia?

I go on holiday to the Middle East every October half term. Mainly because it's the only place with guaranteed sun at that time of year.
I do think it's shocking that the princess is being held against her will with no repercussions. but I am not sure how my family choosing not to go on holiday there will help the situation.

We stopped there for a few hours on our way to New Zealand whilst our plane refuelled. Obviously we didn't leave the airport but had a walk around (anything to stretch the legs)
I didn't even feel comfortable in the airport and it just seemed so over the top and to me, seemed a bit tacky. I've no desire to visit the place for any length of time.

It is difficult to not be hypocritical about your own moral compass at times. So many places have appalling human rights or a terrible record on environmental issues. Unless you live in a hut, off grid, and grow all of your own food, you'll be having a negative impact on someone, somewhere. All we can really do is take our own personal, small actions where we possibly can. Its unreasonable to expect everyone to consider every single issue, in every single country at all times.

[quote redheadwitch]This was an interesting read; from a female ex-pat living in the Middle East. She addresses many of the points raised here so far.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/AMA/3312838-I-live-in-Saudi-Arabia-AMA[/quote]
I started to read it.
She lost me at the point she said

"Yes the punishments are extra strict but it means we can all walk around safely....."

That's alright then.

I wouldn't go there if you paid me.

Well with global warming, Dubai has some serious issues ahead of it.

Lyingwitchinthewardrobe I'm not sure what your comment 'sits comfortably enough' means. I travelled for work, for a corporate company to meet clients. Not my personal choice and not funded by my own money. The people I met there were very pleasant and I was always made welcome. I stayed in nice hotels. But I would never holiday there or spend any of my personal money travelling there.

I no longer need to travel there for work and would not visit again.

@wonderstuff

I have a colleague who taught in Saudi, the stories she tells are chilling, I've no idea how she didn't up and leave, but I guess people distance themselves and feel if they aren't actively doing a bad thing it's fine. Tacit acceptance isn't problematic for some, especially if it suits their agenda, be that work or holiday.

I'd never go myself and I've struck Cyprus off my holiday list after that poor girl was arrested for going to the police to report rape.

Better strike the UK off too, then.

@Frequentflier

I have an extremely love hate relationship with my home country India. Sometimes, after yet another horrible rape, it deteriorates into a hate hate relationship and I have been known to tell foreign women not to visit. Though their money goes to people who really need it. I am often torn.

I have similar feelings about Pakistan, I personally will never visit again and I will do anything I can to persuade my son not to visit when he is an adult.

I buy goods made in China. I holiday in the US. I purchase 'fast fashion' clothes. All responsible for countless and serious human rights abuses. It'd be hypocritical, and arguably racist, to boycott Dubai but continue to support other places/indistries.
Most critics of Dubai holidayers are envious of the (admittedly not to everyone's taste) flash lifestyles. Their apparent moral standards rarely carry through other parts of their lives.

This thread has really given me food for thought so thank you! Dubai was somewhere I always fancied but being reminded about the various injustices suffered by women there, it's given me second thoughts...

@jeaux90

I worked out in Qatar for a couple of years and had to visit Dubai several times.

I would never go back to any country in the gulf.

When I landed back in the UK I cried with relief. It's not until you experience countries who treat women and workers like shit do you really appreciate your own democracy.

I was working for a decent company out there but as a woman I couldn't sponsor my own child because ya know only men can do that.

Awful place

As far as your comment about sponsoring a child goes, that hasnt been my experience at all in Qatar when I sponsored my child and husband 4/5 years ago. Just to clarify I don’t have a GCC passport.

In terms ethical tourism destinations - are there any spots of the planet that has a pure clean historical conscience?

Possibly Antarctica? Even there many nations have placed there markers.

Every continent or island has a bloody history of wars, colonialism, of one group of locals superior (religious or gender or political etc) to another. There is no pure ethical non judgemental gold standard holiday spot. Even so called eco tourism marketed geographies are backed by governments that are corrupt (as all are to a lesser or greater extent) and have economic links to global businesses which are not all green.