AIBU to ask why marriage is so easily dismissed as an option?

[HeidiHaughton]

Why do people not want to get married when to all intents and purposes they're behaving like they are?
I can't help but wonder if some of my mother's seemingly old fashioned pieces of advice about marriage have in the long run turned out to be correct, even if I thought she was behind the times when she dished it out.

When I made my will inheritance tax was discussed with the legal advisor, and I imagine this is standard behaviour, so most people will be aware of the inheritance tax rules at the time. My house is worth £250k so no inheritance tax to pay.

@anitaB888 not every one is permitted to go to a church and sign the register are they though? That's my point. A church shouldn't be able to offer a legal service if they prevent anyone legally entitled to those rights from obtaining them. Either offer them fairly to everyone or no-one.

fdgdfgdfgdfg

Who is paying for the rotting house at the moment
There must be council tax, even on an empty property and insurance each year to pay.

Also even if your sister in law wants to have it then surely the immediate problem is buying your partner out of her share rather than raising money to do it up. Long term how is your partner going to benefit from her fathers will. He wanted her to have 50% of a house which she isn’t getting.
I can see your frustration

If your sister in law is so broke

Sorry posted too soon

If your sister in law is so broke then why isn’t she selling her asset rather than asking your partner for money

We're non religious and not into tradition for the sake of it, especially not when it often includes shit like a man 'giving you away' etc. Family politics of us not having a big wedding /inviting all the family drama. The fact that I'm the higher earner, despite now being PT, so I can spend more time with DD.

We have wills, life insurance we pay for plus work benefits that we've named each other on. We have a mortgage together and a joint account etc. I just don't see the point or benefit. I think many more women are in this position now so less likely to want the big wedding.

Many couples we know done the big engagement /wedding /honeymoon and either now can't afford a house /2nd kid they want because of it OR are already divorced and it's the debt from the wedding they are splitting rather than assets. No thank you.

But the big wedding is a product of marriage being seen as an optional add-on. Back when marriage was almost mandatory, virtually nobody spent a year's salary on a wedding and honeymoon. It was completely normal to go down to the registry office in your best clothes and spend a wet weekend in Bognor.

No need to be given away. I had a church wedding and that was not even presented as an option.

@Clydie89 what about inheritance tax?

For the simple reason that some women don't want too. Many people think being married is a bugger commitment than having kids (i disagree). Many women are the breadwinners now, quite often they won't be with the father of the children and in a new relationship which could cause their kids to lose out if the got married and divorced. For many people it just doesn't seem as important as it once did and Western society doesn't expect it or respect marriage in the same way it once did. People can decide whatever they think is best.

@AnOnOnOn,

'not every one is permitted to go to a church and sign the register are they though?'

No.

'A church shouldn't be able to offer a legal service if they prevent anyone legally entitled to those rights from obtaining them'

They don't prevent anyone legally entitled to those rights from obtaining them' - what are you talking about?

Only 'liberal' Jewish communities will allow interfaith marriages in a synagogue and pressure will be put on the non-Jew to convert.

A Muslim woman is formally forbidden to marry a non-Muslim man regardless of his religion, while a Muslim man is allowed to get married to a non Muslim woman, mainly a Christian or a Jew, considered by the Islamic schools as “People of the Book”

However,
Marriages between Hindus and people of different or no faith are not uncommon. There is no requirement that both partners undertaking the marriage ceremony are Hindu. The religion does not have an 'entrance' ritual. People who 'convert' to Hinduism simply start living by following Hindu teachings

Most religions have 'rules' and aren't going to alter them because some people don't like them.

@Bythemillpond

fdgdfgdfgdfg

Who is paying for the rotting house at the moment
There must be council tax, even on an empty property and insurance each year to pay.

Also even if your sister in law wants to have it then surely the immediate problem is buying your partner out of her share rather than raising money to do it up. Long term how is your partner going to benefit from her fathers will. He wanted her to have 50% of a house which she isn’t getting.
I can see your frustration

If your sister in law is so broke

It's a long story. The sister is currently paying the council tax (and I hope the insurance!) each month.

They worked out a contract with a solicitor whereby all financial liability for the property falls on the sister. The property was another family members, not the fathers, sister is still living with father now. Contract states that sister will pay for my partner's half of the house once father dies from her proceeds of his estate.

It's a crap deal, as what happens if father has to sell his house for care etc. But it's better than the alternative, where my partner has liability for a property that is falling apart. The alternative is to take court to try and force a sale, ruining family relationships and ending up with the solicitors making all the money.

I'll drop out of the thread now as this is getting a bit outing and I don't want to derail the thread from its original purpose.

[quote An0n0n0n]@bourbonne I describe it as religious because it has historical links to religion, because civil ceremonies were introduced to afford same sex couples the same rights as marriage but under a different name because some religions would not support "marriage" unless it was a man and woman. Values like forbidding same sex couples from obtaining the same legal rights as a heterosexual couple have no place, in my opinion, to be allowed to grant the legal privileges associated with marriage.[/quote]
Civil ceremonies have existed for much longer than civil partnerships, which were only introduced in the UK around 2004. Marriage predates all of the major religions.

Security, safety and love are what kids need. If the parents are in a miserable relationship, it is far better that children have two secure, safe and loving homes than one horrible stressful one.

I don't think children of separated parents usually end up with two safe, secure and loving homes, though. If they end up part of two blended families, they usually end up having to trundle back and forth between two homes in which their step-parents don't really want them. Read through the step-parenting forums on here. And statistically, a child is likelier to be abused by a stepfather than anyone else.

@Anitab888

They don'tprevent anyone legally entitled to those rights from obtaining them'- what are you talking about?

Can same sex couples get married by the Church if England?

www.google.com/amp/s/www.yourchurchwedding.org/article/can-i-marry-in-church/%3famp

No. So they have no business offering legal rights to a man and woman.

@clydie89 urgh, how depressing to be splitting marriage debt and paying it off after the divorce!

@AnOnOnOn

The law says that the C of E cannot marry same sex couples.

That is the law.

www.gov.uk/government/news/same-sex-marriage-becomes-law

I don’t think anyone’s yet mentioned the fact that unmarried partners can’t inherit each other’s state pensions.

I’m not married to my partner of 20+ years and have no wish to be. I’m the higher earner, own property in my own name and basically would have a lot to lose financially if we were to marry and then divorce.

The only thing that might force me reluctantly to go for a civil partnership is the state pension issue. I’m really hoping that by the time we’re eligible for our pensions the law will have changed and we’ll be able to nominate each other the way we have on our work pensions.

@anitaB888

I'm seeing where it says:

"allow same sex couples to marry in religious ceremonies, where the religious organisation has ‘opted in’ to conduct such ceremonies and the minister of religion agrees"

"protect those religious organisations and their representatives who don’t wish to conduct marriages of same sex couples from successful legal challenge."

The law says they can opt not to marry same sex couples. Do you think that's right? That they can offer marriage to a heterosexual couple but not a same sex couple? Should a belief in God exclude someone from the law?

My view is that that is an outdated value and whilst the church may have whatever view it has on same sex relationships, that same organisation should not have the power to opt in or out on who they choose to offer a legally binding marriage to. Either offer a legal service to everyone or don't.

@AnOnOnOn,
"My view is that that is an outdated value and whilst the church may have whatever view it has on same sex relationships, that same organisation should not have the power to opt in or out on who they choose to offer a legally binding marriage to. Either offer a legal service to everyone or don't."

OK that's your opinion, which you are entitled to have.

However, that is the law and if you change it you are discriminating against a group of people because of their religious beliefs.

You could use the same arguments against Halal and Kosher slaughter, which is allowed despite animal welfare laws but again this means you are not allowing religious freedom.

Wow. A lot of vitriol against marriage on this thread! I don't see what's so outdated about people standing in front of witnesses whether that be in a church or civil ceremony promising to live protect and honour each other then signing the legal documents to indicate their commitment to share a life. There are other options for those who want a different sort of commitment or none at all but marriage is a great institution. If you don't like it don't do it, but I completely agree that a lifetime commitment agreement should be witnessed, backed up by legal documents and a deliberate choice - not just drifted into.

Either offer a legal service to everyone or don't

The church doesn’t offer a legal service, it offers a religious service. The legal service is provided by the state and is available to anyone who wants it in a registry office.

Friend 1 - not married, has friend with partner. They decide to split. She moved back to the house she had pre-relationship with kid and her DP stayed in his place where they had been living. The kid split time 60/40 between their houses.
Everyone keeps their own finances, their own names.

Friend 2: splits with husband. They have to get solicitors, fill in endless paperwork to do with joint finances, pensions, who has what who will get one. They have to pay for mediator, then have agreements put in place re kids so they can divorce.
Friend 2 needs to change all her documentation for her name to revert.

Friend 1 - separated within a month.

Friend 2 - took 18 months before she could move out of family home to rent somewhere and they still haven’t sorted out finances and sale of family home etc.

That’s why.

Child! Not friend.
Also I am Married so not against it at all, I just see why some people don’t bother.

However, I married a woman. Genuinely not sure I would have married a man...

I agree! I know someone who legally changed her surname to match husband and dc but not get married. She is missing the point I think.
People get married for one of these three reasons IMO.
Romance
Children
Money
If none apply, then the one not wanting to marry is merely keeping their bed warm.

FrickenA Your first example proves perfectly that arrangements only work if both parties are amicable. Many are not.

@Lemmeout

"People get married for one of these three reasons IMO.
Romance
Children
Money"

Not necessarily.
People of faith want to a religious ceremony that includes God in their marriage.