AIBU to ask why marriage is so easily dismissed as an option?

[HeidiHaughton]

Why do people not want to get married when to all intents and purposes they're behaving like they are?
I can't help but wonder if some of my mother's seemingly old fashioned pieces of advice about marriage have in the long run turned out to be correct, even if I thought she was behind the times when she dished it out.

I'm not married. We've been together for nearly 15 years and have a 13 year old daughter.

Neither of us were bothered with the idea of being married, for my part because I hate the idea of being "in the spotlight" all day, and because my family would pitch a fit if we did the registry office thing.

The financial stuff bothers me, but not due to my own risk. I bought the house prior to us getting together, I have the full time well paying job whereas she's done the child care and works 2 - 3 days a week at minimum wage. I have the bulk of savings due to inheritances. We both have access to each others current accounts, but tend to stick to our own. Pretty much all household expenses come out of mine, with the absense of her phone bill and the occasional supermarket shop. We probably have about the same amount of spending money at the end of each month.

Wills are sorted, so if I die, it all goes to her, but I worry about how she'll cope if ever we split up.

I know that I should make things more equitable, but I'm completely unwilling to due to her money sink of a sister. She won't work, and is slowly draining their father of all his money. My partner has lent her so much money over the years and never gets it back. The pair of them inherited a house 3 years ago, which is still sitting empty because her sister refuses to sell because she wants to live in it, but has no money to do it up to make it livable. Trying to get my partner to deal with that is the only thing thats come close to splitting us up, so now it sits shoved under the rug, never to be spoken about again.

So we carry on as we are, she knows I don't trust her with our finances, so we live with the status quo. If we ever split up, I'd like to think that we'd be OK and we'd split things evely, but who knows, relationships don't exactly tend to end amicably.

If we ever split up, I'd like to think that we'd be OK and we'd split things evely, but who knows, relationships don't exactly tend to end amicably.

You're the wealthier, higher earning partner by far and it sounds as though she would be resident parent if it came to that. Is there a reason you wouldn't see her right if you split up?

@Dixiechickonhols

Lots don’t want to be married for very good reasons. The thought that you could simply drift into having onerous legal and financial obligations to another person doesn’t sit well with me. How does it work when there’s more than one partner eg man still married but lives with new gf? Or man with 2 families on the go - married but ‘works away’ and has a gf, both women not aware of other one. Living with a uni boyfriend could fall into New Zealand description - shared household kitty, sex, eat together which is simply mind blowing.

Oh I absolutely agree, it’s a fantastic thing that common law isn’t a thing in the UK. I want the freedom to be able to live with someone without automatically drifting into serious legal ties just due to the passage of time. The rights and responsibilities that come with marriage should be actively chosen, you can get married for a couple hundred quid very easily.

I don’t think people who bemoan the lack of rights for cohabiters really think it through.

I couldn't give a shit about marriage. I did it for legal and financial benefits and we haven't told anyone. Because it's meaningless.

A religious ceremony shouldn't have legal advantages. I'd like to live to see the day where you can sign the same benefits over to any other one person e.g. your sister, best friend, give them the same benefits and tax privileges.

@GeordieGreigsButtButtZoom

If we ever split up, I'd like to think that we'd be OK and we'd split things evely, but who knows, relationships don't exactly tend to end amicably.

You're the wealthier, higher earning partner by far and it sounds as though she would be resident parent if it came to that. Is there a reason you wouldn't see her right if you split up?

I'd like to think that there's no way I wouldn't make things equitable. I'd also like to think that's she'd never cheat on me. But I've seen relationships end and people who I thought were decent turn on the people they'd spent the majority of their lives with.

I'd like to think that I'd never be like that, but people can be shitty, and I don't have enough of a superiority complex to say that I couldn't be shitty too if something like that happened.

With regards to who'd be the resident parent, my daughter's 13 so there's no reason I couldn't be the resident parent.

To reiterate, this is all hypothetical. I'm in a very happy relationship, we've had ups and downs but I'm in no way looking to get out of it. I overthink though so all this goes through my head on occasion

@fdgdfgdfgdfg you don't get to financially penalise someone if they cheat on you or fuck you over. The other person is still entitles to a fair share of assets even if they're a cunt.

[quote An0n0n0n]@fdgdfgdfgdfg you don't get to financially penalise someone if they cheat on you or fuck you over. The other person is still entitles to a fair share of assets even if they're a cunt.[/quote]
You are completely right. But we're not married, so our finances are separate. I get to keep my money and she gets to keep her money. That's not penalisation, that's the way the law works in this country.

As I said, we're in a happy relationship. I don't think she's a cunt, she doesn't think I'm a cunt. We trust each other not to screw each other over. For her, that's enough. For me, that's mostly enough until I have one of those nights where I'm still awake at 5am stressing out about the universe and I wonder what happens if one of us is a cunt.

I've tried to make things fairer. I've suggested we get married on the downlow, I've suggested that we pool all our assets. But she has an asset that she'd rather let sit and rot than force the issue and put it towards our future. So we have an impasse.

So we bumble along, and things go fine. Hopefully neither of us turn out to be a cunt

@fdgdfgdfgdfg, personally I appreciate how realistic and thoughtful you are about yourself, your spouse/child and your relationship.

I used to think marriage rates were falling because people just weren't interested in marriage anymore. Over the years, I've come to believe they're falling because MEN aren't interested in marriage anymore. Even in 2021, men are usually the higher earners in heterosexual relationships. Now that women are happy to provide sex, housework, etc. without a marriage certificate, marriage now offers little incentive and a lot of risk for men at a population level. It's no coincidence that society has decided marriage is an outdated tradition, but giving a child their father's surname isn't. The former statistically benefits women, while the latter always benefits men.

Look around MN: how many threads are there from women who are disappointed that their partner won't marry them vs. threads from women whose partners are pressuring them into marriage? There's no contest. I see this reflected in my friendship circle and on other websites, although I understand this is anecdotal.

I think a lot of women get pregnant expecting their partner to propose at some point. The logical side of them knows that the days of men not wanting their child to be bullied for being a "bastard" are long over, but there's a part of them that thinks he'll want them to become an official "family" unit once the baby is here.

@fdgdfgdfgdfg if you trust each other so much then get married.

People generally, amd this ismt am attack on you, but generally peaople like the idea of their own money if they deep down think that on balance, they would get the better deal.

It's easy to say 50/50 Is a fair split but that isnt always the case of someone has primary custody of a child, if that person can't work full time flexible hours because of that responsibility.

One thing marriage does have in it's favour is that it's a deal done on on good terms rather than when someone has cheated on and feeling are high, and that an independent person looks at the facts and divides the assets. Its a bit like an insurance that the pot will be shared fairly, even if neither of you agree what's fair.

@An0n0n0n

I couldn't give a shit about marriage. I did it for legal and financial benefits and we haven't told anyone. Because it's meaningless.

A religious ceremony shouldn't have legal advantages. I'd like to live to see the day where you can sign the same benefits over to any other one person e.g. your sister, best friend, give them the same benefits and tax privileges.

Why do you describe it as a religious ceremony? Legal and financial benefits are exactly what marriage was designed for - not exactly meaningless. Religions have then developed their own ways of doing it that add a spiritual aspect, but most weddings are civil ceremonies.

They have what you describe in France, by the way; it's called PACS.

Cynically many men don't have to. They can get all the perks with none of the responsibility.

A religious ceremony shouldn't have legal advantages

No religious element is permitted in a civil ceremony. Some religious wedding ceremonies are legally valid (not all) but you can most certainly have a religion-free wedding.

It's no coincidence that society has decided marriage is an outdated tradition, but giving a child their father's surname isn't.

This is such a good point.

As many others have said, if you are in the stronger financial position then it makes zero financial sense to get married. My partner pisses his money away whilst I save and stuff it in my pension plan. By choosing not to get married (and protecting ourselves financially / legally in other ways), I do not get het up and angry about it any more. Its his money, his choice. He will regret it one day no doubt but that's up to him.

@bourbonne I describe it as religious because it has historical links to religion, because civil ceremonies were introduced to afford same sex couples the same rights as marriage but under a different name because some religions would not support "marriage" unless it was a man and woman. Values like forbidding same sex couples from obtaining the same legal rights as a heterosexual couple have no place, in my opinion, to be allowed to grant the legal privileges associated with marriage.

@geordiegreigsbuttbuttzoom I totally take your point but I think all legal marriages should, for arguments sake, have to be civil ceremonies, with places of worship only able to conduct a pretty ceremony on the side. Not able to grant the legal side of it.

[quote An0n0n0n]@geordiegreigsbuttbuttzoom I totally take your point but I think all legal marriages should, for arguments sake, have to be civil ceremonies, with places of worship only able to conduct a pretty ceremony on the side. Not able to grant the legal side of it.[/quote]
Why? As long as people can have a legal wedding with no religious element if they want, why shouldn't religious people be able to have a faith based wedding if they choose?

Both got wills, life insurance etc has sorted out all the legal stuff so we are both protected

When people say things like this, have they considered inheritance tax? Not being snarky; I genuinely don't know if it's an issue. But I do know that you pay IHT on any large enough estate (which many are, if a house is involved) apart from when an estate is left to a legal spouse or civil partner. Unless there are other cash reserves in the estate, might these people not have to sell their house in order to pay their partner's IHT bill?

I find it strange that people seem quite happy to have a baby with someone but don't want the commitment of marriage.
Once you have had a baby with someone, you will be in each other's lives forever. A marriage is often not permanent.
A baby is a much bigger commitment than marriage but it's not viewed in that way.
Its very odd to me.

@geordiegreigsbuttbuttzoom

Religious people should be able to have whatever magic words they want.

But some religious places refuse to marry same sex couples and places with those values should not be able to decide who they will and won't permit to access
legal rights.

Basically until it's illegal for anyone to refuse to grant legal rights (marriage) based on someone's sexual orientation those places shouldn't be able to grant rights to those they deem 'acceptable' (heterosexual) and withold from those who are 'unacceptable' (homosexual).

Imagine being told you can't go to Macdonalds because you're homosexual but you can go to Burger King and order from a different menu....you'll still get fed so it's the same result and anyone can now go to Burger King so why shouldn't Macdonalds be able to serve hamburgers

@AnOnOnOn,
"I totally take your point but I think all legal marriages should, for arguments sake, have to be civil ceremonies, with places of worship only able to conduct a pretty ceremony on the side. Not able to grant the legal side of it."

You are mistaken.
A church wedding in itself does not make the couple legally married. They have to sign the Register to make it legal.

In the same way you have have a Humanist Ceremony, or a Pagan Handfasting Ceremony but neither are legal marriages unless the couple have undertaken a legal commitment.

@SarahLox77

Both got wills, life insurance etc has sorted out all the legal stuff so we are both protected

When people say things like this, have they considered inheritance tax? Not being snarky; I genuinely don't know if it's an issue. But I do know that you pay IHT on any large enough estate (which many are, if a house is involved) apart from when an estate is left to a legal spouse or civil partner. Unless there are other cash reserves in the estate, might these people not have to sell their house in order to pay their partner's IHT bill?

We did consider this, yes, but the entire value of our house is below the threshold and we have no plans to move. If it changes, we would then have to reconsider.

@WoodpileHouse

I find it strange that people seem quite happy to have a baby with someone but don't want the commitment of marriage. Once you have had a baby with someone, you will be in each other's lives forever. A marriage is often not permanent. A baby is a much bigger commitment than marriage but it's not viewed in that way. Its very odd to me.

Because some women don't want to be someone's wife. I certainly don't.

@StiffLittleFingerrs,

"Because some women don't want to be someone's wife. I certainly don't."

Why not?

(Genuine question)