To ask why religion is declining in Britain - Part 2

[Buccanarab]

I don't know if there's already a second thread on this but couldn't see one and the first one filled up as I was typing something so stated a new one.

If there is a 2nd one admin feel free to delete/move this one.

Link to 1st thread

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4161163-To-ask-why-religion-is-declining-in-Britain

@Marmunia11975

I have proof that God exists because of several personal experiences. I have PROOF HE/SHE EXISTS. You don't have proof he doesn't exist

I've asked you repeatedly on the other thread but you keep ignoring my question.

So once again how do you know the proof you received was from your God and not some other religion's God?

You say you were raised in a Christian family so did you just assume your proof came from the God you were already familiar with, or did the specifically state they were in fact the Christian God?

If a God revealed their existence to me the first thing I'd be doing is checking which God it was as the rules you have to live by vary massively from religion to religion. Would be nothing worse than living your life according to Christian rules only to find out it was Rastafarian God or something who spoke to you.

Excellent work, OP

AnitaB888:

However I don't see that allowing couples who don't believe in God to take vows in His Name is part of 'mission'. I see it as pointless, meaningless and hypercritcal

Better take it up with the church then.

I just find religion full of conflicting information hatred fear and judgement, the exact opposite of what it should be

I have proof that God exists because of several personal experiences

Anecdotal evidence isn't proof.

*Marmunia11975

Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist. So far, I have had no evidence.*

You can't prove a negative. I can't prove unicorns are real or that there isn't a Ministry of Magic secretly running the country. Doesn't make it true.

You can however prove something does exist. Which no-one has been able to do for any 'god'. Because it's a human invention to help cope with life.

Some people are so desperate for it to be true that they see/feel things that aren't there and say that God spoke to them.
Where's god's intervention when there's whole countries dying from thirst, hunger and preventable disease? When children are dying from cancer? Until I see proof of divine intervention, not just for Western people who still have it pretty damn cushty, I will continue to believe there is no god.
The world isn't a great advert for god, to be honest, it?
Greed, hypocrisy, mental, physical, emotional and sexual abuse, money hoarding, extortion, war, and that's just within the Christian church.

The Mauthausen quote springs to mind. "If there is a god he will have to beg for my forgiveness."

On the point of "all goodness comes from god"

How?

God is an abusive, child murdering sadist in the bible.

Drowning babies, mentaly torturing a man into nearly murdering his son for his amusement, demanding parents mutilate the genitals of their children, approved the torture of a whole family just to win a bet with a being he himself created.

I mean the list is really endless

It does seem harsh that the lgbt community has to subsidise the christian Church through their taxation to then be banned from using the facilities. And how can they change it when the other side has automatic seats in government

That's what the Americans revolted over isn't it? Taxation without representation?

You should watch near death experiences on YouTube. Literally thousands of people' Come back from the dead' and say there is a god. Not some bloke but just pure consciousness, pure love, pure peace, pure joy. The veil is very thick and consistent, we're all blind down here. It's supposed to be like this. It's god experiencing scenarios of not god. When we leave this life, our spirit leaves the body, then goes on it's next journey.

"Please can someone prove to me right now that God does not exist. So far, I have had no evidence."

OK

You're Christian and you have absolute proof god exists. (I have proof that God exists because of several personal experiences. I have PROOF HE/SHE EXISTS. )

Brilliant got 1 god, bible says he is the one and only God great.

But there's other religious people who also have PROOF their god exists and there holy books also say there is only one god.

So they must be right too...
But now I have 2 gods who are absolutely perfect and divine each saying there is no other god but them, obviously the only outcome is thier unlimited divine power ends the other (and all the others) and there are now no gods left.

Whats that famous quote, "I propose we are both atheists, I just believe in 1 less god than you".

@wirldsgonemad

You should watch near death experiences on YouTube. Literally thousands of people' Come back from the dead' and say there is a god. Not some bloke but just pure consciousness, pure love, pure peace, pure joy. The veil is very thick and consistent, we're all blind down here. It's supposed to be like this. It's god experiencing scenarios of not god. When we leave this life, our spirit leaves the body, then goes on it's next journey.

Thousands of people take drugs and see god every day too, just Google DMT trip.

Doesn't make it true

@wirldsgonemad

You should watch near death experiences on YouTube. Literally thousands of people' Come back from the dead' and say there is a god. Not some bloke but just pure consciousness, pure love, pure peace, pure joy. The veil is very thick and consistent, we're all blind down here. It's supposed to be like this. It's god experiencing scenarios of not god. When we leave this life, our spirit leaves the body, then goes on it's next journey.

Yeah, that's just because people don't know how else to explain it and because they've been conditioned to believe in/hope for an afterlife with god. It's really not proof of anything other than body and mind playing tricks on you.

@CathyorClaire,

"However I don't see that allowing couples who don't believe in God to take vows in His Name is part of 'mission'. I see it as pointless, meaningless and hypercritcal

Better take it up with the church then."

I did do, in fact I wrote to the Bishop of the Diocese. (C of E)

I was told that it was at the Vicar's/Priests discretion who they married in their church and that couples were offered counselling before marriage.
I was also told that if husband A had an affair with Miss X and then wanted to marry her, then it was generally frowned upon, as it would seem that the church was condoning their adultery.

HTH

@sapho47
"It does seem harsh that the lgbt community has to subsidise the christian Church through their taxation to then be banned from using the facilities"
Where on earth do you get this rubbish from?

Churches are self-supporting (although they can ask for grants for major repairs)
The LGBT community is not "banned from using the facilities" either, although the C of E does not conduct same sex weddings at present.

Would you ask a friend who has been wrong time and time again on all the big things for advice?

@araiwa
"Would you ask a friend who has been wrong time and time again on all the big things for advice"

I'm not sure if your post is responding to me? If it is I don't understand what you mean?

It is what it is.

/thread

@TrickorTreacle
"it is what it is

/thread"

What does this mean?

[quote AnitaB888]@sapho47
"It does seem harsh that the lgbt community has to subsidise the christian Church through their taxation to then be banned from using the facilities"
Where on earth do you get this rubbish from?

Churches are self-supporting (although they can ask for grants for major repairs)
The LGBT community is not "banned from using the facilities" either, although the C of E does not conduct same sex weddings at present.[/quote]
Churches have received millions and millions of pounds from the government.
Seriously, do you just make it up as you go along and state it as fact?

www.gov.uk/government/news/support-for-churches-and-cathedrals-across-the-uk-announced-by-chancellor

@beseigedbykillersquirrels

Please read my post again and stop being so insufferably rude.

Churches are self-supporting (although they can ask for grants for major repairs)
What you refer to deals with one-off payments for those places of worship designated as either 'listed buildings' or 'places of historical interest.' I would suspect that, although it sounds good on paper there will be plenty of hoops to jump through before getting a sniff of any of that cash.

Churches & Cathedrals aren't just places of worship, they contain historical items of art, sculpture, architecture.

(The gvt also gives grants to stately homes and the like as they are part of our national heritage.

Winchester Cathedral for example has 100,000 visitors a year (tourists)and is self-funding on a day-to-day basis.

Lincoln Cathedral generated income when it was used a a set for the film "The Da Vinci Code".

It seems to me that you are some kind of cultural Philistine who is happy to let our national heritage fall into disrepair to further your supposed 'inclusive' agenda.

I did do, in fact I wrote to the Bishop of the Diocese. (C of E)

Goodness.

As a matter of interest is the church you attend vibrant, buzzing and attracting newcomers in droves?

[quote AnitaB888]@sapho47
"It does seem harsh that the lgbt community has to subsidise the christian Church through their taxation to then be banned from using the facilities"
Where on earth do you get this rubbish from?

Churches are self-supporting (although they can ask for grants for major repairs)
The LGBT community is not "banned from using the facilities" either, although the C of E does not conduct same sex weddings at present.[/quote]
Why should they pay taxes to support an organisation that discriminates against them?

I don’t think all religion is declining. I think Islam is increasing.

"atheists/pompous closed-mind people"

Wasn't someone upthread saying that it's only atheists who insult religious people and not the other way around?

@Hooth00t
"Why should they pay taxes to support an organisation that discriminates against them?"

Oh dear, someone else who hasn't read my post where I said
Churches are self-supporting (although they can ask for grants for major repairs)

and here is how the C of E is funded_

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_and_finances_of_the_Church_of_England#:~:text=Donations%20comprise%20its%20largest%20source,of%20around%20%C2%A3900%20million.&text=There%20is%20no%20other%20gov