Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

[Kendodd]

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

"The UK has nine of the ten poorest regions in Northern Europe"

You keep trotting this line out but the rest of Northern Europe is pretty just Scandinavia, which is one of the richest regions in the world
It also includes France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany and Austria.

I'm half English, half Scottish. Born in Scotland, live in England. Would I get a vote? I didn't in the Scottish referendum. I feel like my ancestors fought each other for hundreds of years and now we are united, I wouldn't want to lose that.

@TheSandman

It's a myth that Scotland is left-wing. The SNP are classic centrists economically. There are surveys showing that people in Scotland regard themselves as further left than in England, but when you drill down to things like tax they're the same.

Maybe - but England has been careering rightward at an alarming speed for the last few decades. Hard to imagine that a soft, old school socialist type like Corbyn is too far to the left for the Labour party.

But this is a case in point. Corbyn is a genuine socialist. But he led Labour to one of their worst ever results in Scotland - twice.

Scots voted in much greater numbers for the centrist SNP.

As for Johnson Tories, economically they're more keen on tax and spend than their Tory predecessors. If they're right wing due to nationalism, well............

fullfact.org/economy/does-uk-have-poorest-regions-northern-europe/

Claim = false.

Also, when producing the figures, Eurostat adjusts GDP for price differences between countries, so you can compare the economic activity of different regions, regardless of their price levels. But this amount is set at a national level, so doesn’t account for the fact that price levels in some regions may differ from other regions within the same country (London is a much more expensive place to live than the rest of the UK, for instance).

So some regions with price levels lower than the national average may appear poorer than they actually are, and vice-versa.

@MarshaBradyo
I haven’t read the whole thread. Maybe someone else has responded to your comments. The issue is that, given its constitutional-type implications, the Brexit referendum should not have been run based on a simple majority vote. It should have been double-locked (or triple-locked) to avoid the issues alluded to on this thread.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_majority
This means that a majority would have had to be achieved in all four nations constituting the UK for the referendum to be carried.
Example Switzerland (which is world-famous for holding referendums as part of its democratic process): “In Switzerland, the passing of a constitutional amendment by popular vote requires a double majority; not only must a majority of people vote for the amendment but a majority of cantons must also give their consent. This is to prevent a larger canton from foisting amendments onto the smaller ones and vice versa.”

@justbrewit "We would save loads of money if Scotland went independent"

The "subsidy" myth again. Perhaps do some reading before trotting out tired stereotypes?

When you're reminded every day when you're watching the news that the main news is from England and the "news where you are" is tacked on at the end, then you know your place as a second rate member of the union of apparent "equals".

@Bearnecessity

No but I must admit to being absolutely fed up with the whining scots.I would be quite happy if we cut them loose and didn't give them another penny.

This. I used to love the Scots, supported them in pretty much everything, sang their praises. Then I discovered how many of them hate the English.

The problem with that is first the constituent parts of the UK don't have the same populations. The other problem is that there was no triple lock on entry.

If the 1975 referendum had a triple lock, Northern Ireland would have come within an 11,000 swing of frustrating an overall 67 percent Yes vote. Would that have been right?

@araiwa

Whichever annoys the Scots and Welsh the most- I'd do that

Scotland wouldn't miss you one bit @araiwa . That I can assure you of.

[quote OlmostOlwyn]**@justbrewit* "We would save loads of money if Scotland went independent"*

The "subsidy" myth again. Perhaps do some reading before trotting out tired stereotypes?

When you're reminded every day when you're watching the news that the main news is from England and the "news where you are" is tacked on at the end, then you know your place as a second rate member of the union of apparent "equals".[/quote]
Areas other than England do get additional public spending simply by not being England.

In the past, Scottish nationalists have been quite happy to claim that Scottish oil revenues 'subsidise England'. This is no different (and has been going on much longer).

@RunningFromInsanity

No, but I’d rather have Wales than Scotland.

You (as an English person) don't own them though. Why would you say that?

"This.
I used to love the Scots, supported them in pretty much everything, sang their praises.
Then I discovered how many of them hate the English."

Oh no. How are we going to sleep tonight? 😢

The English would happily vote for independence from the E in England.

That is how stupid we are. We would also vote to ban socks and remove all toilet paper from supermarkets.

Also the complaints that Scotland isn't treated equally really just come down to the fact that the English population is much, much bigger.

They're no different to Kipper complaints about Brussels.

Hopefully, Sturgeon will have to resign because of her corrupt behaviour during the Salmond trial. And then the Snp will tear themselves to pieces in a leadership fight. I'm a Scot, I appreciate all the countries in the union and, like MANY other Scots, I cannot abide that atrocious woman and her disgusting cronies. At this point, Sturgeon and co are only interested in what's best for them, not what's best for Scotland or any of the countries in the union.

Dearymesheila

52andblue
‘I think there is more of a separatist attitude amongst all of the constituent nations of the UK lately, yes.’
‘And I wonder how much SM has to do with that.’

Sheila, yes, I think that too. So much bad feeling everywhere due to mean comments on social media. I wonder how much real world suffering it is going to cause.

Thanks to everyone who answered my question about how the union came about. It was really interesting to read all of the different perspectives.

That might be difficult for you given that they are likely to be indiffent about it and probably think its up to England.

Place marking for the morning.

No - my maternal family is welsh, paternal family English and I'm married to a Scot.

DH and I have Irish friends.

We all seem to rub along very nicely.

I think people seem to forget that what's more important is what we have in common than what divides us.

I honestly get exasperated by all this nationalism.

It's a thinly veiled demarcation of "specialness" and it's suddenly all pervasive, not just nationalism but regarding all sorts of identities and allegiances that seek to demand not equality but an Orwellian level of "more equal than others".

Frankly I think people in a tizzy about national independence should re-direct their efforts where it's really needed. For example child poverty, social mobility, racial equality, disability access etc....issues that are far too prevalent across the U.K.

Nope I don't think the English would want independence.
I live in England and exH lives in Scotland so if we had independence and I had to transport the kids to another country EOW it would be a nightmare

I’m a Scot, count myself British. As much I want to remain in the UK, it does not just benefit Scots. Without the other countries which make up the UK, England would also become much less powerful in the world. That’s why Govt doesn’t want Scotland to leave or they’d just tell Kranky to go and get on with it.

It’s very interesting how a question about England leaving the UK has been interpreted by lot of people as ‘which of the UK nations would the English like to remove from the UK’.

wouldn't vote for it, but England would be better off economically without Scotland or Northern Ireland. Fact

So many people stupid enough to believe this. Strange how desperate Westminster are to hold onto Scotland if this was true eh.

Word and Tom

Interesting posts on process. I wonder if it was a possibility here / discussed.

I wouldn’t but that said, with the amount of anti-English sentiment and I’ll-truths of our attitudes to the other countries in the UK, I think it would probably be of benefit from a social aspect, if not a financial one.