Do you think the English, if given a vote, would vote for independence from the rest of the UK?

[Kendodd]

Yabu - No they wouldn't
Yanbu - Yes they would

The break up of the UK seems high chance to me, maybe 60/40 to be voted for within the next ten years. They don't ever seem to ask the English what would you personally vote?

I think London will eventually vote to become a city state. It supports the rest of England and I'm surprised there's not more anger over this.

@cardibach

I don’t think enough English people really understand that England doesn’t equal Britain for them to do this.

This, absolutely.

London “supports the rest of England” because it’s sucked everything out and destroyed it all. It’s been acting as an empire sucking out the regions. Someone mentioned libraries as part of London’s cultural hub?? It might surprise you to know that libraries historically were founded in the regions first. Manchester and Birmingham were their birth places, not London. Centralisation on London is very recent - post 2000 recent. London would struggle to feed and water its population alone - every city state has a hinterland.

Was it Winchester that was the original capital of England? Maybe they'll need to come out of retirement when London secedes.

Parts of Wales vote Conservative.
In UK general elections, Welsh votes would return a Labour government every time in Wales. It usually ends up with a Conservative govt in Westminster.

Parts of England vote Labour.
Feel free to have a debate about independence for particular English constituencies, but I don't think it's as meaningful as a debate about independence for a nation which already has devolved powers, its own language and a growing independence movement.

I totally agree that Brexit has been very instructive - it shows exactly what happens when a weaker entity demands powers from a much stronger one. Yes you weaken the stronger party but you lose too.

But culturally the UK is moving apart - sometimes presented as left wing or right wing. You have to remember that can change too! Now Scotland is placing into legislation very different concepts to its nearest neighbours, and that difference will tell over the years. When you don't share political parties (ie Labour and Conservative in Scotland are now tiny) then this is pretty certain as the outcome.

You keep trotting this line out but the rest of Northern Europe is pretty just Scandinavia, which is one of the richest regions in the world

We are actually the second richest European country behind only Germany in terms of GDP.

@Timpeall

Was it Winchester that was the original capital of England? Maybe they'll need to come out of retirement when London secedes.

..Or Colchester ...

@Timpeall

Was it Winchester that was the original capital of England? Maybe they'll need to come out of retirement when London secedes.

Old Sarum

Winchester still has the Round Table

Or Tamworth. Or York. No need for England, I want to wave a Mercian flag (hey Sheffield, or you for Northumbria or Mercia? Choose now! With us or against us)!

We are actually the second richest European country behind only Germany in terms of GDP

Not per capita, which is what matters if you want to talk about deprivation

No absolutely not

I'd like Scotland to stay

I wish sturgeon would go. Give it up Nicola!

There wouldn't be a big enough push from the Saes to actually leave, becuase England (pilotically, not all the English people) is the big bully husband in the fairly abusive relationship between the nations. England is the centre, first and foremost, and I feel like the other 3 nations are barely thought of except for what we provide (hell, you only have to look at the COVID threads on here where it is talked about like English rules are 'THE UK RULES'). First time ever, brought on mainly by the pandemic, I will be fully supporting indywales. I feel so sad and cross about the way wales is spoken of and treated by Westminster. Even the language on this thread: 'have', 'keep'. Mind your tongue. We as a Welsh nation are still raw about certain aspects of social and political history, in a way I don't think England can truly understand.

No I wouldn’t.
Brexit is enough thanks.

I only very recently heard about the village of Capel Celyn which was flooded in order to create a reservoir, to supply the NW of England. What a thing to do to Wales. So moving to look at old photos of it on Google images and to think now all that remains is beneath a lake.

@bp300

If I was from England I'd want the other three countries to leave. If I was from one of Wales, NI or Scotland I would want to stay in a union with England and want the other two to leave so there was more money for us.

Well that could happen. NI rejoins the Republic and Scotland becomes independent and leaves more money for Wales...

I always wondered whether NI would join Scotland if the Union dissolved but it seems far more likely that it would pitch in with the Republic now.

All of us are suffering under a centralised rule in London. Even the rest of the south east complain regularly

You see you'd all hate me because I am a centralist. I don't like postcode lotteries and I want everyone to be the same, pay the same and get the same services. One silly example is the fact that you can live on a county border but can't use the tip closest to you because you are in the wrong county. If we had a nationwide system for that, it wouldn't be an issue.

@BlackBrowedAlbatross

Parts of Wales vote Conservative. In UK general elections, Welsh votes would return a Labour government every time in Wales. It usually ends up with a Conservative govt in Westminster.

Parts of England vote Labour.
Feel free to have a debate about independence for particular English constituencies, but I don't think it's as meaningful as a debate about independence for a nation which already has devolved powers, its own language and a growing independence movement.

So in short you think it's unfair for Welsh Labour voters to get the government they prefer but not Welsh Conservatives?

@Timpeall

I only very recently heard about the village of Capel Celyn which was flooded in order to create a reservoir, to supply the NW of England. What a thing to do to Wales. So moving to look at old photos of it on Google images and to think now all that remains is beneath a lake.

My aunt grew up there, moved out when she got married, i remember visiting the site when we had a drought in the 80s when the water was at its lowest, eery af

That's because the UK keep gaslighting them. 'Stay, we're stronger together' 'We'll Never leave the EU

Utter nonsense. David Cameron announced his stupid referendum in 2013.

The Scottish referendum was a full 18 months later in 2014.

The people in Scotland knew the EU referendum was coming.

Someone remind me, which country is Kielder Water in now and which villages were flooded for it. There’s villages under Ladybank Reservoir, which came back to light recently as it grew shallow. There are reservoirs everywhere with drowned villages. What a reason that is. If you want to talk about overpopulation in these islands, I’m all ears.

My aunt grew up there, moved out when she got married, i remember visiting the site when we had a drought in the 80s when the water was at its lowest, eery af

I'll bet it was.

Ladybower reservoir, sorry not bank.

Ok it's time for actual hard facts!

Bottom line - it’s the bottom line that literally counts as livelihoods or good old economic survival and relativity!

World GDP per nation UK is apparently 5th
by most recent and respected calculations
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofcountriesbyGDP_(nominal)

UK GDP approx US$2.5+ trillion
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyoftheUnitedKingdom

England GDP approx US$2.5 trillion
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyofEngland

London GDP London produced £487 billion ($650B) or around 1/4 of UK GDP in 2018, while the economy of the London metropolitan area the largest in Europe generates around 1/3 of the UK's GDP or almost $1.0 trillion.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyofLondon

Scotland GDP $205 billion
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyofScotland

Wales GDP UK£74.9billion
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyofWales

Northern Ireland GDP €53 billion
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconomyofNorthern_Ireland

Note these are naturally indicative figures but money talks!

I’m in core central London and still believe together is better and more so because of the strategic value of being together in the challenging Brexvid times! Now is not the time to be divided but stay stronger together.

London is essentially a quarter or third of the UK economically! And no an independent London City state would not be ideal despite the fact that economically (alone) it is possible as we can easily “import” and source supplies!

I wouldn't vote for it as I love being connected to my Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish neighbours and don't see that the benefits out way the cons. However, if those nations wish to break away it is their choice and I would support them in that choice.

@LexMitior

I totally agree that Brexit has been very instructive - it shows exactly what happens when a weaker entity demands powers from a much stronger one. Yes you weaken the stronger party but you lose too.

But culturally the UK is moving apart - sometimes presented as left wing or right wing. You have to remember that can change too! Now Scotland is placing into legislation very different concepts to its nearest neighbours, and that difference will tell over the years. When you don't share political parties (ie Labour and Conservative in Scotland are now tiny) then this is pretty certain as the outcome.

It's a myth that Scotland is left-wing. The SNP are classic centrists economically. There are surveys showing that people in Scotland regard themselves as further left than in England, but when you drill down to things like tax they're the same.