Is anyone really making any actual sacrifices to combat climate change?

[Cam77]

Saw a news article about a well known celebrity who is very outspoken on climate issues having another child, which is of course literally the worst thing you can do in terms of your climate footprint. But anyway it got me thinking: Does anyone make any actual sacrifices/significant life style compromises for climate change? Or do we instead merely big up choices that we would have made for different reasons anyway?

For example, I'm vegetarian and when people ask the reason I'll cite the effect of beef and pork farming on the environment as one reason. But the truth is I wouldn't eat them anyway, as I hate the idea of inflicting suffering on other intelligent mammals. Or sometimes I tell myself not owning a car is me "doing my bit" but the truth is I don't really enjoy driving and don't need a car for work. Anyway, it often seems when you scratch the surface, there are nearly always reasons of immediate self-interest attached.

Of course, people are good at spending a few minutes to sort and separate their rubbish now, and we take more care to turn off lights we're not using. All good. But how many people are really making significant life style compromises for purely altruistic reasons. 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

I get where you are coming from but placing pressure on everyday folk instead of the huge, multimillion industries that drive the destruction of the environment is a tad unreasonable. I can, as an individual, not stop deforestation, glacier retreat, or even the fact that arseholes hunt animals. Can I?

I agree with @Cornetttttto - individuals are not the answer, unless absolutely everyone does it, and that's exceptionally difficult to organise. We need companies and supermarkets to stop using ridiculous amounts of plastic, stop using palm oil and bleaches, stop using gallons of water to produce effectively disposable clothing, etc etc.

I know some people who refuse to fly, even professionally, out of CC principles. They work in professions & have incomes that would enable foreign travel, and talk fondly of places far away they would like to go to one day.

Not sure about difference between 'sacrifice' and 'effort'. OP is right I make an effort, I don't make sacrifices.

Didn't that celeb say they will stop at 2?.

I know my neighbours are very keen to let everyone know on the street that their plastic foot print is small which is great, they hardly use their bins, but they did just install a wood burner which is apparently a huge environmental impact and bad for us to breath in next door.

About the individual.

We have tins something p, otherwise it's leaving it to everyone else.
What if I decided, that stealing that block of cheese won't make a difference...but then everyone else thought the same?

We have to do something. Little acts make a difference.

I do agree with you.
I’m looking for a new car and I am choosing a hybrid, and I’m pleased it’s better for the environment but mainly I’m choosing it because it will use less petrol and therefore cost me less.
I also try to eat less meat but again, mainly for selfish reasons that it’s to be healthier, and the environmental part is a bonus.
I honestly can’t think of any specific genuine sacrifice that I would be prepared to make. Kind of an awful realisation about myself really as I do lots of “good” things like careful recycling, shopping local etc but all of them involve no sacrifice for me.

@Snowsnowglorioussnow

Didn't that celeb say they will stop at 2?.

I know my neighbours are very keen to let everyone know on the street that their plastic foot print is small which is great, they hardly use their bins, but they did just install a wood burner which is apparently a huge environmental impact and bad for us to breath in next door.

Doesn't matter if they stop at 2. Harry moaned publicly about climate change and all that, even claimed to be hesitant to have kids because of it.... and now he's had another kid... 🤷‍♀️

@farandfew

I agree with *@Cornetttttto* - individuals are not the answer, unless absolutely everyone does it, and that's exceptionally difficult to organise. We need companies and supermarkets to stop using ridiculous amounts of plastic, stop using palm oil and bleaches, stop using gallons of water to produce effectively disposable clothing, etc etc.

I hear this quite often and it does sound like a teeny bit of a cop out. You’re correct of course that large companies/industries have a massive effect and should do more, but people often seem to use it as a reason why they shouldn’t bother, as an individual.

I’m by no means perfect, and similar to OP the “sacrifices” I make are the ones that are easy for me personally to make. For example, I don’t fly, but I don’t like flying, so it’s not that difficult. If CC weren’t an issue then I might (covid notwithstanding) put more effort into being ok with flying, but it is, so I don’t.

We drove on our summer holiday instead of flying it was bloody awful. Drove for days in a heat wave had to overnight at weird hotels. So in order not to fly we were made uncomfortable, spent a fortune and lost days of our holiday. By the end of it the kids and I flew back and dh (green warrior) drove.

I have made quite a lot but all minor in the overall scheme of things - mainly avoiding companies that over package. For example a certain biscuit company who triple wrap their biscuits if you buy a pack of 20 ( each individual biscuit, each set of 10, then again to bundle into a double pack). It's a shame as I loved their product. I won't be buying it again though.

The same goes for many other manufacturers. Each is a small protest in itself but if we all did it then it would have an effect.

No. Im not. I care a lot about the environment in priciple but Im typing this on my 3 year old phone for instance.

I do stuff like recycle and try and buy a bit less and think about my heating but nothing that comes close to a sacrifice. The whole economic model based on growth is bad for the environment really and it very difficult to step out of it.

People will generally only make the sacrifices that are the least inconvenient for them.

When you suggest people stop eating so much cheap meat, they don't like it because they enjoy eating cheap meat.

When you suggest people buy less cheap fast / disposable fashion, people don't like it because they enjoy buying fast fashion.

When you suggest we should have fewer foreign holidays, people don't like it because they enjoy foreign holidays.

When you suggest we should have fewer children, people don't like it because they want children.

It's easier to try and recycle a bit more and buy bar shampoo or a reusable water bottle and pretend that's sufficient.

I think everyone can try to do their bit within a framework we can’t really control. I only fly about once every 6-8 years, I’m waiting until I can afford to trade in diesel car for an electric, reduce plastic at home, try to reduce the new consumer goods we buy, reduce meat intake and imported food... but we do use electricity/gas boiler/eat meat and dairy and have children.

There’s very few people who can live self-sufficiently in an eco house and be net 0 carbon, who can get to work without transport etc. wrapping ourself in guilt just for existing doesn’t necessarily help and can make us all feel despondent. Even having children at this time while birth rates are low is not necessarily the worst thing to do in the U.K. where a population collapse could be a big problem for ageing populations in a few years.

I heard a statistic that all the carbon reduction of electric cars over the last 10 years has been cancelled out by the increasing uptake of more polluting SUVs. We need to make the right changes as a society that have the biggest impact. It requires strategy and commitment at government level to work out a way of meeting environment targets and giving the public information and meaningful solutions alongside greener industry/technology/infrastructure.

I can’t think of anyone I know who makes actual sacrifices, despite knowing many vegan eco warriors. They all do the things that make them happy and feel better but that aren’t too much of a hardship, but still have as many children as they fancy.

They might proudly announce that they don’t fly on holiday for environmental reasons, but the truth is that they can’t afford it or don’t want to go with all their young children anyway.

I actually don't agree that on an individual level anyone can make a real impact, and therefore think an awful lot of the CC discourse is virtue signalling ...for example saw some data on carbon pollution during the strictest lockdown period, when a huge proportion of individual cars were off the road...the difference in overall levels was barely perceptible www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55018581

Every time I breathe out I plant a tree.

I do a lot but accept that in the grand scheme of things is lame
Try and cycle nor drive into town (though recently a driver just drove into me very bruised that put me off)
Faff about with refill shampoo conditioner laundry stuff takes time would be easier to just get in supermarket
Mooncup
Stopped at 2 dc but if being honest couldn’t face going through all the faff again

Yes, only had one child for environmental reasons and only fly every five ish years, also for environmental reasons.

You're probably right.

I don't drive, I don't really need to, walking keeps me in relative good shape and I don't like the idea of being so dependent on something. But I do get pissed off by people driving really short distances.

I try to eat veggie a few times a week with the vague idea that it's healthy.

I use reusable baby wipes, but they are so much better at cleaning a baby's bottom! Hate disposables now (and the 5 or 6 you need for a really mucky poo).

I get really annoyed by the amount of packaging some food manufacturers use, but what can I do about that? I do get a Gousto box every week where most of it is recyclable (and also minimal food waste).

[quote FieldOverFence]I actually don't agree that on an individual level anyone can make a real impact, and therefore think an awful lot of the CC discourse is virtue signalling ...for example saw some data on carbon pollution during the strictest lockdown period, when a huge proportion of individual cars were off the road...the difference in overall levels was barely perceptible www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55018581[/quote]
This is true. Also, a few people here mentioning flying for holidays when tourism travel makes up a tiny percentage of overall flights, most of which are business, goods transport and military flights. Where your food comes from makes a lot more difference than whether you go on holiday.

I haven’t flown for four years and counting because it’s the biggest thing I can do to drastically reduce my personal carbon footprint. I love travel so it could feel like a big sacrifice but it has opened up holidays I wouldn’t previously have considered, such as overland to Istanbul.

I make sacrifices for the environment because I believe the greatest threat is pollution- or making the planet too poisonous for human life.

Climate change cannot be stopped. The planet has several climate cycles that it goes through in matter how much CO2 is in the air or not. There is a long greenhouse and icehouse mega cycle that spans hundreds of millions of years. We are currently in a icehouse phase which is punctuated by ice ages and ice free warmer periods. But the over trend is still that we are gradually cooling off for another ice age. All humans are doing is slightly delaying the next ice age. Climate change cannot be stopped. The Earth has no steady state balanced climate. It is always changing.

I'm currently using reusable nappies with my nearly 3 month old and I hate them with a fiery passion - that's definitely a sacrifice! I've also never bought her a first-hand outfit although I would really like to as I know she'll be in them for such a short time and there's loads on the second-hand market.

DH and I also usually choose the most ethical option when buying products, regardless of the cost and whether we like it as much. For example, we buy recycled loo roll, which I feel is like sandpaper! Our online delivery substituted normal loo roll at the start of covid and I could have cried at how deliciously comfy it was to use. And we don't have very much money spare but always buy (for example) loose fruit and veg which is more expensive and less convenient than packaged, ecover washing up liquid which is more expensive than and less nice smelling than Fairy, etc. Ditto I prefer plastic to bamboo toothbrushes and the price difference is incredible, but still buy bamboo.

And I once carried two bloody enormous bags of peat-free compost for a mile home from the supermarket as the only stuff we could get delivered (which would have been cheaper too!) had peat in it.

However, it's a valid point, as there are changes I have made that don't feel like huge sacrifices (don't fly - although I love travel! - but am afraid of flying. Don't drive - although it would be so convenient and I live in a tiny city with nothing going on - because I'm not a confident driver. Vegan for years and eat a tiny amount of animal produce for health now I'm breastfeeding, but care about animal welfare too. Use a mooncup but like a mooncup).

And I would never have not had a child as it's been the greatest desire of my life since I was a child myself! Would honestly have had a child had I known that her birth would single-handedly cause the death spin of the planet. But I guess that's part and parcel of being an animal with a desire to reproduce.

Not having kids. Vegan. Trying not to fly as much as possible which is easier said than done in a large country where I am expected to go to interstate stuff for work etc. next car will be electric. Not buying plastics where possible and using refills and reusable stuff.

But it’s all a work in progress. And you are right- the climate change stuff is a tiny part of the being vegan and not having kids thing!

I know what you mean OP. I have two kids not three but that's because I only ever wanted 2. We don't fly but that's partly because flying and foreign holidays are a massive stress with young kids. I could pretend it's all about the environment though.

I think people are mainly motivated by self interest but maybe that's what we need to do- align the easiest option with the best for the environment.