Is anyone really making any actual sacrifices to combat climate change?

[Cam77]

Saw a news article about a well known celebrity who is very outspoken on climate issues having another child, which is of course literally the worst thing you can do in terms of your climate footprint. But anyway it got me thinking: Does anyone make any actual sacrifices/significant life style compromises for climate change? Or do we instead merely big up choices that we would have made for different reasons anyway?

For example, I'm vegetarian and when people ask the reason I'll cite the effect of beef and pork farming on the environment as one reason. But the truth is I wouldn't eat them anyway, as I hate the idea of inflicting suffering on other intelligent mammals. Or sometimes I tell myself not owning a car is me "doing my bit" but the truth is I don't really enjoy driving and don't need a car for work. Anyway, it often seems when you scratch the surface, there are nearly always reasons of immediate self-interest attached.

Of course, people are good at spending a few minutes to sort and separate their rubbish now, and we take more care to turn off lights we're not using. All good. But how many people are really making significant life style compromises for purely altruistic reasons. 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

Which celeb is this?

@APurpleSquirrel
That’s exactly it, and I’ve said the same thing.

@Cam77

I was listening to a thing on Gates’ new book on climate crisis and radio person said he flew in a private jet to interview people which felt ironic.

Yeah, Bill Gates seems nice to me. But I don’t think this is the right battle for him (which he acknowledges to an extent to be fair). He’d have a far better impact quietly investing some of his billions in earth friendly companies (and I know he is v.charitable) rather than writing a book from a vantage point of “do as I say not as I do/did”.

I think his points might be good.

One was the innovation angle fostered by government (iirc) which as you say us a good route

With any company it has to flow through renumeration structure to make a dent. Rather than just looking good.

No children. No car. Limit meat and dairy consumption. I haven't bought new clothes for years. Recycling.

I'll probably not be able to afford flying to go on holiday after covid, so that's out as well.

The last one will be a sacrifice.

I’ve cut down on flying and I can genuinely say it’s for environmental reasons. I last flew nearly six years ago. However, I have to admit I wouldn’t have flown anywhere in 2018 in any case, as I was either heavily pregnant or looking after a baby.

I’m vegetarian and don’t eat many dairy products, but that’s really for animal welfare reasons. And if I don’t have a second child, that won’t be for environmental reasons. Environmental reasons may help me feel better about it, though.

Just have a look at this thread to see what MN thinks of doing your bit for climate change.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4159917-AIBU-to-expect-heating-to-be-on

Home heating is a huge contributor to emissions, especially in a temperate/cold place like the UK. Yet there's barely anyone in that thread saying anything other than the OP is right that the heating should be turned up and they can't possibly be expected to put on more clothes instead.

Far too many many people want to talk about reducing emissions but no fucks are given if they need to change their own behaviour to help.

I eat a lot less meat than I used to.
I dont waste food.
I grow my own veg ( a lot of it)
I don't use plastic
I recycle everything
I compost
I dont fly that often
I dont use my car unless necessary
But I do have 3 dc- sorry.

I would have to say, no I don’t.
We don’t light our fire any more but mainly because it’s banned.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe
Excellent points. Yes, I think if the climate situation is as serious as we are led to believe, then the super rich and their virtue signaling have landed us all in it, as their hypocrisy has closed millions of ears to the seriousness of the cause. What we need is less emphasis on “saving the world” - the world will be fine anyway, and more emphasis on energy efficiency and long term technological solutions in transport, energy and food production. Look at China with their humongous high speed rail network (which I believe is longer than the rest of the world’s combined) it must be saving incalculable amounts of car/plane pollution each year. But it wasn’t done primarily as a green solution just a pragmatic one.

One thing I do is read ingredients on labels and buy palm oil free whenever possible.

I stopped buying things like Nutella, peanut butter with palm oil, palm oil chocolate, sauces, pastry, and soap. It is difficult as it is in so many things, including Greggs. Even sustainable palm oil is to be avoided. The vegan trend is not helping because the butter substitutes often contain palm oil and the 'avocado' is a good fat is almost as bad as the use of palm.

We have always used our own shopping bags. Use less water, less heat and light. No poisons in the garden and no Febreze or other fake perfumes, no fire pits or anything else that creates smoke for no useful purpose, like outdoor cooking and the pollution it produces. Not sure if that helps as cooking then needs to be done with gas or electricity but I try.

I don't eat animals, but that is not purely for the environment but because I won't be responsible for the death of a sentient being, or the fear the feel when knowing they are going to be killed.

Sorry, typos.

Little things are specifically to reduce waste.
I stopped buying bin liners 10 years ago, instead using bags from potatoes or multipacks as daily bin bags, and I use soap so no shower gel bottles.
I seldom buy beef, and avoid veg that have been flown in. And I recycle everything. I only put my main bin out once every 6 or 7 weeks.

But everything else - insulating the house, cutting my commute, buying natural fibres is to cut costs or make life more enjoyable.

Next car will be a smaller engine. After that, a ground source heat pump but they are v. expensive..

Ultimately, the only thing that will ensure we hit the 2 degree warming limit (forget the 1.5 degree one- that ship has sailed) is rapid, wholesale decarbonisation of the energy sector. Unfortunately, at global scale that is hugely complex, expensive and fragmented, and countries have different considerations because they will all be impacted differently (Russia and Canada would actually benefit from small amounts of global warming in terms of crop yields and habitable land, China won't). For the majority of countries, renewables are not yet at par with FF for energy generation and there is the issue of sunk/ committed cost and infrastructure - just switching overnight to 100% renewables now would be extremely inflationary because energy costs underpin the costs of just about everything. There is of course the very valid argument that we should be investing more in renewables and should have ages ago, but that doesn't help much now.

However, the real issue is that the growth of energy demand is coming from countries whose historic emissions are actually pretty low (i.e. they did not cause CC which is caused by cumulative emissions, not emissions in any one year/decade) and who now have the opportunity to develop economically using FF as energy. Therefore, limiting CC depends on the actions of countries who contributed least to it and who have most to lose economically by constraining energy demand now (which is basically what will happen if renewables are more expensive than FF). Europe's population is stagnating/declining and we have arguably reached peak consumption - however, 5 million people in developing or least developed countries haven't even started their consumption journey. There are reasons for optimism - China has solar at parity with coal now and a fully electrified bus fleet in Shenzhen- but there is so much that needs to be done and most of this involves unpalatable trade offs- for example pp mentioned the destruction of ancient woodland for HS2 - it may actually be carbon neutral if it reduces car use (it may not be - I haven't looked at the calculations, but it's just an example).

That's not to say that individual changes don't make any difference, but they are unlikely to add up to anything like what is needed - wholesale green finance and technology transfer flows from developed to developing countries (international development/ flows).

Very few of us will actually give up our cars, phones, technology.
Companies are producing tonnes of plastic because we keep buying the cheap plastic tat at the end of the chain. I have changed my mentality to buy only what we need, replacing with sustainable quality items that could last a lifetime.

I was glad to see this news.
www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/white-goods-law-new-rules-could-stop-you-buying-new-fridges-washing-machines-and-ovens/ar-BB1dlwfZ

Veganism
Reusable things instead of disposable ones (food bags, make up wipes, sanitary care)
Bar soap and shampoo
I dont fly.
Some of these things I'd do anyway, others are because it makes me feel better about my moral compass environmentally, and saves money.
I buy second hand stuff 95% of the time and grow my own salad stuffs. But, I think the best thing about these small changes is how others seem to follow if you talk about them.

The debate about central heating is interesting. I was made redundant in Autumn so this winter I turned the heating down 3 degrees and put on an extra layer. Getting dressed was a bit of a shock the first week but otherwise I haven't noticed the difference. It means half a wash load extra per week but HALVED my gas bill for Oct - Dec.
I have a new job now but the heating will stay down unless we have visitors.

@1940s

Which celeb is this?

@1940s I would guess OP was referring to Harry and Meghan.

I pay to offset the carbon of my travel and try to do so also for ordering online etc.

For an environmentally minded friend who's asked for no wedding gifts, I'm paying to offset the carbon of her wedding and hen.

I've made an environmental plan before for a company, and the key point from the training was that most environmental decisions should save you money in efficiency.

Oh, and I'd be willing to vote Green/for a party with a good green policy based on their wider agenda in spite of whatever their trans agenda is (I'll admit I don't know off the top of my head), because I believe that voting on the trans agenda issues is less important than voting on green issues.

And... This is a slightly weird one... But I've stopped donating to charities that focus on human issues and focused on planetary ones. There's not a neat divide between the two, but I think that saving and enhancing human life at all costs is a bit of an own goal. If a part of the world isn't habitable to humans then we shouldn't live there, for example, which inclines me against water aid etc. But then things like education for girls is widely regarded to reduce human birth rates so I see it as planetary, not human.

Waiting for a full load before using the washing machine and for some time have used less detergent than the dose on the pack.

Washing on the very short cycle for things that are really not grubby but need a quick wash.

Veganism would be better if the use of palm oil was not so rife, and promoting avocados which are not great for the planet, just the body.

I use only recycled packaging for parcels. I also get it from my neighbour who doesn't recycle properly, so I take her boxes and bubble wrap.

I use Freecycle for anything I need or no longer need, or when the charity shops are open it goes there, or to the animal rescue.

Dry cleaning bags (not mine but we do get them from suits etc.) I tie a knot where the hole for the hanger is and use them for rubbish or fill with donations for the charity shop. I use packaging from toilet rolls/kitchen rolls etc. as bin liners. Dry waste - tissues, crisp packets etc. go straight in the outdoor bin to avoid using a bin bag. Yogurt pots etc. are used as plant pots for cuttings etc. to be passed on, plastic trays as seed trays or useful to stand plants in. Foil trays also re-purposed for various things.

Shopping - own net veg bags and buy loose produce instead of plastic bags of carrots etc. Potatoes bought in big paper sacks not small plastic bags.

@thecatsthecats

I pay to offset the carbon of my travel and try to do so also for ordering online etc.

For an environmentally minded friend who's asked for no wedding gifts, I'm paying to offset the carbon of her wedding and hen.

I've made an environmental plan before for a company, and the key point from the training was that most environmental decisions should save you money in efficiency.

Oh, and I'd be willing to vote Green/for a party with a good green policy based on their wider agenda in spite of whatever their trans agenda is (I'll admit I don't know off the top of my head), because I believe that voting on the trans agenda issues is less important than voting on green issues.

And... This is a slightly weird one... But I've stopped donating to charities that focus on human issues and focused on planetary ones. There's not a neat divide between the two, but I think that saving and enhancing human life at all costs is a bit of an own goal. If a part of the world isn't habitable to humans then we shouldn't live there, for example, which inclines me against water aid etc. But then things like education for girls is widely regarded to reduce human birth rates so I see it as planetary, not human.

Agreed on your last one, I too have gotten a bit more strategic in my charitable donations (though I hasten to add they are small). Certainly I am more focused on supporting things to do with animals, biodiversity, habitat loss etc. than with strictly 'human' causes (though of course they are all intertwined). A part of my thinks that we humans have had our chance and have sort of blown it and lets minimise the damage to all the other species as the whole shit show goes down.

I faff about with refillables in glass bottles costs me much more as well. I use reusable pads as well, takes long time to wash and dry as i dont have a tumble dryer.

I donate £3 a month to wwf orangutan rainforest preserve project. I use a safety razor that cuts me to ribbons. Mostly its financial i cant afford eco stuff but i buy it as i want to make an effort.

I thought methane was a much bigger problem than carbon dioxide?
The methane that comes from cows volcanoes and is released from under the sea at the north and south poles

Besides if the international community was really bothered by global warming then there would be massive pressure put on those big companies who pollute and don’t seem to be accountable
We can only do a little as individuals

Also treeapp if anyone is interested. Is a project with eco sponsors that you go on every day to plant a tree.