Is anyone really making any actual sacrifices to combat climate change?

[Cam77]

Saw a news article about a well known celebrity who is very outspoken on climate issues having another child, which is of course literally the worst thing you can do in terms of your climate footprint. But anyway it got me thinking: Does anyone make any actual sacrifices/significant life style compromises for climate change? Or do we instead merely big up choices that we would have made for different reasons anyway?

For example, I'm vegetarian and when people ask the reason I'll cite the effect of beef and pork farming on the environment as one reason. But the truth is I wouldn't eat them anyway, as I hate the idea of inflicting suffering on other intelligent mammals. Or sometimes I tell myself not owning a car is me "doing my bit" but the truth is I don't really enjoy driving and don't need a car for work. Anyway, it often seems when you scratch the surface, there are nearly always reasons of immediate self-interest attached.

Of course, people are good at spending a few minutes to sort and separate their rubbish now, and we take more care to turn off lights we're not using. All good. But how many people are really making significant life style compromises for purely altruistic reasons. 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

Anyone volunteering to give up their mobile phone or flatscreen TV?
www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth
Not gonna happen is it. 😔

This topic separates the small minds from those that think big. On the Today program this morning, the presenter asked Bill gates in a pre recorded interview whether we all need to consume less to tackle climate change. Bill Gates answer was that consuming less is not realistic, we all need to fly etc. The answer is to consume with 0 carbon footprint - tech advancement.
Small minds will always say, but less, fly less, live in a timber hut in the forest and forage for your food. Those that think big will say increase the standards of living for all, consume as much as you want, but let’s some it donut has 0 carbon footprint. Sadly, small minds have big mouths.

This topic separates the small minds from those that think big.

It's not small mindness really. It's because it's much more difficult to develop new low carbon technologies than to tell people "you must do less of x and y".
That's what people are bombarded with.

Things I do specifically for the environment:

Reusable wipes etc for the baby.
Try to buy second hand.
Don’t buy luxury things that end up in landfill eg party decorations, balloon garlands.
Pay for zero waste boxes from Terracycle.
Holiday mainly in UK.
Eco egg for laundry and wash at lower temperature.
Buy recyclable everything where possible eg wrapping paper
But ecover products etc
Buy seasonal and locally produced products instead of the exotic fruit and veg that i love!

Obviously though I have children, I have a smart phone, I have a car... I’m hardly an eco warrior and I feel bad about it. I think it’s a cop out to say what’s the point when industry pollutes so much - it’s us buying what they make after all. China may produce a lot of emissions but that doesn’t mean you have to wash your whites at 90 because that only makes things worse not better.

The problem is that buying less, flying less, less tourism etc all hurts the economy. It’s all very well me not buying asparagus from Guatemala due to food miles, but that’s not great for the producers over there who rely on the income. A lot of developing nations rely a lot on tourism and would suffer if people stopped flying there. It’s really hard.

Ultimately we all have a Carbon footprint but if we all did the things we think we can manage without sacrificing too much (eg if people want to use disposable wipes I get that but being careful how many we use rather than pulling a new one out every time the baby takes a mouthful) it would make a difference.

Climate change is causing real suffering in some nations already so I think we ought to try to make things better not worse, even if as individuals we can’t actually change it.

@Cam77

By the end of it the kids and I flew back and dh (green warrior) drove.

Lol. Have to be careful with that! I think the research shows that a single occupancy car has a WORSE footprint over a set distance than an air passenger. While 2+ car passengers is considerably better than two flyers (in a plane full of loads of other passengers) over the same distance.

That's really not true. Flying is always worse than driving in terms of climate impact.

It all comes down to money. A few individuals can make a difference by their choices. We need everyone to change. That needs legislation and money.

Things are changing. Big oil producers are moving into renewables. It's just not fast enough.

I'm making slow changes but it's only massive corporate changes that will have a true impact. Corporations will usually only change when they have too though.

So, we have an electric car, we're reducing our plastic usage, we shop more locally, aim to buy ethical clothes. It's a drop in the ocean but it all counts.

Small things -

Like I source about 90% of my kids’ toys second hand, even if it costs more and takes a bit of effort.

The second wears mostly hand me downs from the first and clothes I buy that won’t be worn much eg Christmas jumpers I always buy second hand (and then in turn will pass on).

Occasionally contribute to planting tree projects etc

I use cloth nappies.

But yes I’m aware in the grand scheme of things these are small tokens, but it’s better than nothing.

It's less of a sacrifice if it's "normal" among the people whose opinions matter to you. Having the heating on high, wearing new clothes, replacing a kitchen, driving an enormous car - those are individual choices supported by cultural norms. If your friends sneer at you for catching the bus, that would be hard. If they get the bus with you, it's good. Terms like "virtue-signalling" and "hypocrisy" are thrown around by the giant corporations who want people to excuse each other for buying their outrageous products.
I'm just about to run through another assessment of our whole lifestyle to see where we can reduce our carbon footprint. We all can do this. We all can make a huge difference.

I sacrificed some time to do some research and looked at companies and areas I thought where ethical and put my savings there.

So far its paid off green energy and social responsible indexes really took off this past year.

Sacrifice is easier if you can find a win win

Oh yes and I use bar soap and bar deodorant. Tried bar shampoo and it didn’t work for me so back to plastics. So yeah that’s probably my environmentalism in a nutshell - I’ll try most things but if it’s too much effort I’ll revert back ...

This topic separates the small minds from those that think big.

I’m not technically-minded, so you’re right that I’m not going to invent a plane that produces zero emissions. Presumably you’re working on one, or something similar?

In the meantime, I’d love if it if travelling by train was a lot cheaper than flying. Flying from London to Edinburgh can be half the price of taking the train - that’s ridiculous, and doesn’t reflect the cost to the environment.

We’re trying, not perfect but trying. We buy more local / seasonal produce where possible and less meat overall, I’ve stopped using the likes of Primark / Everything’s £5 and use charity shops (pre-Covid) or eBay for clothes instead. And the last couple of years pre-Covid we holidayed in the UK as a deliberate environmental choice, even though I love flying and have a list of places overseas I’d/we’d love to visit.

I have a very small carbon footprint because the things I naturally like tend to be environmentally friendly
We need to make it easy and convenient for people to be eco-friendly!

@tilder
That's really not true. Flying is always worse than driving in terms of climate impact.

"According to EcoPassenger, a journey from London to Madrid can be done with lower emissions per passenger by plane, even accounting for the effect of high altitude non-CO2 emissions, if the car is carrying just one person and the plane is full. If you add just one more person into the vehicle, the car wins out"
www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/science-environment-49349566

There's not much in it between the two but at the moment the consensus is that it's better to fly than drive as one occupant.

@RealisticSketch

Anyone volunteering to give up their mobile phone or flatscreen TV? www.bbc.com/future/article/20150402-the-worst-place-on-earth Not gonna happen is it. 😔

I don't have a flatscreen TV. Don't want one.

Your post really made me think. I came to say I'm vegetarian, but like you, if I'm being honest that's because I love animals (although I gave up eating meat when I was flying a lot for work).

I agree that change needs to be top-down. Governments are great at announcing green policies, but ours for example is doing so while it's destroying ancient woodland for HS2. Older trees capture more carbon than newer trees, so 'tree-planting' isn't a great solution –we need to protect what we have.

100 companies are responsible for more than 70% of GHG emissions. So me not buying new clothes is barely a drop in the ocean. Food waste produces six times the emissions of the aviation sector, but the first thing people of thing of when cutting their footprint is reducing flying.

It's hugely complex and the messaging is confusing. Yes, we should all 'do our bit', but I don't think it's the responsibility of individuals to cut emissions so that huge conglomerates can get away with maintaining theirs.

@SlopesOff but as you’re on here it’s fair to presume that you’re a consumer of technology in some way.

Technology is an interesting one, it’s undoubted important in today’s world but when does there come a point that the benefit of fast progression start being over taken by waste. If I sit and think about how many mobile phones I’ve been through in the last ten years it’s shameful. My parents landline phone lasted till I left home and still had a spinny dialling bit. It only got changed so my dad could programme in numbers.

Two come to mind- 100% renewable energy at home (costs a bit more) and restricting the number of flights I have (used to be perhaps 8 or 9 return flights a year, now only one or two).

@AtLeastThreeDrinks

Your post really made me think. I came to say I'm vegetarian, but like you, if I'm being honest that's because I love animals (although I gave up eating meat when I was flying a lot for work).

I agree that change needs to be top-down. Governments are great at announcing green policies, but ours for example is doing so while it's destroying ancient woodland for HS2. Older trees capture more carbon than newer trees, so 'tree-planting' isn't a great solution –we need to protect what we have.

100 companies are responsible for more than 70% of GHG emissions. So me not buying new clothes is barely a drop in the ocean. Food waste produces six times the emissions of the aviation sector, but the first thing people of thing of when cutting their footprint is reducing flying.

It's hugely complex and the messaging is confusing. Yes, we should all 'do our bit', but I don't think it's the responsibility of individuals to cut emissions so that huge conglomerates can get away with maintaining theirs.

Yes, but these company's activities are based on our needs, want and desires as consumers. It's not like as if they are wilfully destroying the planet in some sort of vacuum that has nothing to do with us. OF COURSE they could do things better, less wastefully, etc - less business travel to give just one example - but their core business is determined by the collective decisions of many people, i.e. you and I

Isn't it funny that so many people are 100% committed to turning their lives upside down to combat the risk of catching covid, yet won't do anything to combat a much more dangerous threat?

We do make sacrifices and do our best. Yes we need huge policy changes and worldwide action but if every individual made different choices it would add up to a huge difference and we have huge power as consumers. Saying I can’t make a difference in my individual choices is a cop out so we don’t have to change our behaviour IMO.

And I agree it should be top down. For far too long companies and governments told people that the little changes they can make will combat climate change. Er, no they can't, not without support and commitment from above

Which I realise somewhat contradicts my previous post.

Yes, but these company's activities are based on our needs, want and desires as consumers. It's not like as if they are wilfully destroying the planet in some sort of vacuum that has nothing to do with us. OF COURSE they could do things better, less wastefully, etc - less business travel to give just one example - but their core business is determined by the collective decisions of many people, i.e. you and I

^^this

We made and are making a lot of changes, some from more selfish and financial reasons but ultimately they all help us reduce our environmental impact.

I agree that it should lead from the top, but using it as an excuse is just pathetic frankly, i.e. 'i won't be doing anything to help the environment because it's Amazon's responsibility' - attitude like that really winds me up.

The recent years have proven just how much power normal consumers have: 5 years ago you would be hard tasked to find more than one type of alternative to diary milk in a supermarket, yet right now I'd say it's almost half/half. Conscious consumers are pushing the change slowly, and voting with your money and your feet eventually had a cumulative effect. (Of course it would be easier if it was just 'done from the top' but in the meantime I want to live and know I've done the best I could, rather than putting the responsibility on everyone else).

I haven't been on a plane since 2005. I have no intention of ever again making an unnecessary plane journey.

I don't drive. DH has just scrapped his car also. Neither of us think the decrease in convenience is sufficient justification to run private cars. We do not live in an area where a car is an absolute necessity or have conditions or dependants with conditions which would make having a car an absolute necessity.

I haven't eaten meat, fish or slaughterhouse by products in 30 years. We have been significantly reducing dairy consumption in our household for a few years now and estimate it is around 20% of what it used to be. Meat is not a feature of most meals, even for those members of the household who do consume some.

I shop second hand wherever I can: in the 17+ years of our relationship, other than a few baby items, we have bought precisely one item of furniture brand new.

Reusable cups etc have always been the norm for us. Reuse of anything that can be reused has always been our way too. We trace this back to the dire poverty DH grew up and the lessons my extremely poor grandparents taught my own parents. Neither of us were brought up to think waste was anything other than selfish fuckery.

Our heating never goes above 20. That said, in winter it rarely goes below 16 either, so we aren't all that great on that!

There are lots and lots of things we need to do to continue reducing our footprint though. We're not doing anything like enough to reduce our water use, we don't really think about food miles when shopping, we don't make a huge effort for the dc's clothes to come from second hand sources, we all have mobile phones etc, I'm lazy as fuck when it comes to present wrapping and will just buy a cheap roll of paper and get it bloody over with, and on and on and on.