To say to daughter staying overnight with grandparents

[SidSparrow]

My Dad and his wife want DD1 to stay overnight and I don't want her to. We have a bit of a troubled relationship which I'll get to in a bit. We have 2 children - DD2 has just turned a year and is a bit of a lockdown baby so has never really left my side so there would be major drama on her part if she was stay with them. DD1 is very comfortable with her grandparents and could stay no bother. They asked me last week if she could come stay and I said no, that she's a sibling (they share a room together) and you can't really take one and not the other and said that when DD2 is a bit older they can both stay.

Now they have come back to me saying they don't understand my logic. So, here's the background. Firstly I feel that they treat DD1 and DD2 differently. I think they blame it on DD2 being a baby and not seeing her much due to lockdown so they haven't got to know her as much. But when we are all together they are so enraptured by DD1 that DD2 doesn't get as much attention. When DD1 was a baby they were all over her but DD2 is left to get on with it. Even things like food, they give DD1 food then ask about DD2 like she's an afterthought. Letting DD1 stay over would just cement this different treatment. Also, DD1 is nearly 3 now and I wonder what it would say to her that only she goes to gran and grandads and not her sister. It very much feels like DD1 is a grandchild and DD2 is by default.

I don't have a great relationship with them myself. We get on but this is due to considerable effort on my part in keeping the peace - I don't let rip. I feel as though my Dad only tolerates me in order to keep seeing his grandaughter. He often falls out with me, he doesn't say so, he just ignores me for a few days then messages again. He's only finished ignoring me because he reccommended a movie - I said if it included children being hurt then I'm out because I can't watch things like that anymore - I wasn't rude or cheeky and only said it because the last time he recommended a movie it had children dying in a house fire. So he took the huff ane ignored me for about a week. He came back saying he hadn't been in touch because he was hurt?!?! It was ridiculous that anyone could be offended!! Then he was in touch to ask if DD1 can stay. In terms of a supportive loving father - he helps me now and again with money which I am very appreciative of, but that's all I get. He can barely have a conversation with me and I find talking to him extremely difficult as he is so judgemental. I am reluctant to allow DD1 and DD2 get so close as I don't know how he'll be with them when they get older. If it's like how he is with me then I'd rather they never saw him.

I find the whole thing awkward - I don't know what to say to them. Am I right that they should only go as a pair? Is there anyway I can back up this angle to keep him at bay? Any advice on what to say back?

(We're in scotland and they are in our extended household)

My logic is that if they were terrible parents then they can be terrible grandparents. Maybe not now when they are young and cute but older. My background with them is really troubled.

I would say this is the issue and you are hiding behind the sibling rule. You are the parent and don't need to explain any reasoning a simple sorry that's not good for us should suffice. However, my parents were not great parents, but they are fabulous grandparents, particularly on 121 basis, I avoid the kids going together to gp as this can get stressful and my parents don't need to deal with sibling argument etc

You say they were terrible parents, but you've not said how or why.

Also it doesn't always follow that they won't be good grandparents. My GM was not a good mother to my mum, but she was as an excellent grandmother (my mum would say the same). I spent a lot of time with her and she was an important part of my life.

It’s different if they abused you. And entirely up to you either way.

I actually agree with you. They don't have to see your logic, you don't have to explain anything to them, they are your children
If you are not comfortable with letting your child stay over, that's it

I was brought up by my grandparents. When my Dad married my step mum I went to live with them. My Step mum is socially awkward. I was 11 and it was always up to me to start conversations. If I did something wrong I was ignored. There was no openess or talking abou things. My Dad was very moody and it was hard to guage what I'd done wrong if anything. There was no abuse, lots of mental anguish and emotional neglect. I ended up not eating, staying in my room all the time, then sneaking alcohol. I was eventually found out and my school arranged it that I went back to my grandparents to live.

They're not bad people, just emtionally immature, awkward.

After my grandparents died I was pretty much on my own, I was at uni. We had a relationship but I rarely needed them. They didn't bother too much with me either. When I fell pregnant I wanted to include them - I liked them, so moved back to near where they stay, but as soon as my daughter was born my years with them came back to me and I have really struggled with it. I have feel I have a let them in and I can't say no now. We moved away from them, a good half hours dive so we can't see them as much but now they want DD1 to go stay!

They also spoil DD1 - to be expected. They laugh at all her behaviour. I seen her slap her gran in the face and they laughed!! I was horrified! She went through a hitting phase and we nipped it in the bud but turns out at their house this still goes on, and they laugh! She loves fruit - they feed her crisps and chocolate - all day! I don't mind crisps and chocolate - but not all day! They speak to her in a way that is odd to me. "You're messy! You're silly! Oh you're terrible". Never, anything encouraging. Just this constant criticism said in a joking tone. I hear it and think - no wonder I never had any confidence. It drives me insane! Who talks to a child like that!?! One time I was leaving the house to help my step mum help fix the car and my Dad holding DD1 said jokingly 'you're mum's leaving you, and she's never coming back'. WTF! They're odd! They're not like other people. They're not bad but I just don't want that much contact with them. I got to where I am in spite of them and it took a lot of overcoming real emtional BS. It pains me to play happy families with them and I feel awful for them that I feel like that.

They don’t have to get your logic. You understand it and that’s all that matters. They say they don’t understand it you just say oh! In a surprised voice and leave it at that.
Or you just say no I’m not comfortable with that yet.

They sound really weird, I would not allow them unsupervised contact with the children, and your Dad sulking is very immature. I’d be surprised if there is any real benefit to anyone apart from themselves

OP your update is very raw and honest and shows great insight in to your feelings and why you, justifiably, feel the way you do.
The comment about mummy leaving and not coming back is enough for me. You don’t ever need to let any of your children sleepover if you don’t want them to. You are their mother and it sounds like you are doing an incredible job loving them and protecting them.

I can completely appreciate where you are coming from in your post.

Firstly I agree with not separating the children, my DD is 2.5 and has never had a sleepover yet but when she does my DS who is currently 1 will go with her. Both my mum and MIL have also said they wouldn't have one without the other (unless emergencies etc) as they wouldn't want to feel as though they have a favourite. Both children, even with lockdown, are treated equally by the grandparents and there is no favouritism. I feel like if your DD goes alone for sleepovers it might heighten the preference for her and eventually your youngest will start to notice and feel in the shadows of their sister. Yes they might be young but they have feelings and jealousy can rear it's heard as I'm noticing with my two.

Secondly, as much as grandparents can be better than they were as parents it will be your maternal instinct to protect your children from the emotional trauma your father has caused you. I am NC with my father now. I tried to involve him in my children's life but I knew eventually he would hurt them too and decided to save them the trauma. I respect you majorly for trying to allow your children to have a relationship with him despite your past.

You are well within your rights to refuse a sleepover - grandparents are not entitled to your children. Does your dad do any childcare or have unsupervised time with the children during the day? An alternative to a sleepover could be to let them have your daughter for dinner and a movie in her pjs and you can collect her for bed? Or a pj morning at their house for breakfast so they are having an aspect of a sleepover without actually staying over. This might be good to give your eldest some space from her sibling and some time for you to spend quality time with the youngest. I know myself during lockdown it's hard to divide your attention equally!

Again, your children your rules. If you don't feel comfortable doing something then don't.

YABU. I don’t think they would only go out as a pair. Especially at a young age. You seem to be looking for an excuse. Your kids will group up to have different group of friends (at least initially ) and have sleepovers etc on their own anyway. I would think your daughter has a right to build a relationship with her grandparents on her own merit.

That being said, it’s your prerogative and as a paren you have the right to make that decision. I would think grandparents having a good rapport with a grandchild is great and many grandparents would find a one year old much harder work in terms of nappies etc., even afraid that the child might get sick and they wouldn’t be able to communicate efficiently.
Best of luck anyway.

Honestly, I wouldn’t have any contact with them. It sounds like their behaviour affected you negatively when you were a child, why give them any opportunity to affect your children negatively? It’s your choice, it sounds like they make you feel nervous and obliged. You have 2 children and you are allowed and capable of making decisions for them.

Seperating the two issues here

Your relationship with your father doesny sound great but he does sound like he has a good relationship with your eldest child, most people would be more interested in spending time with a preschool child than a baby and lockdown had made it much harder to bond with a baby whilst they have missed the grandchild they already have a relationship with, i would monitor how things go as dd2 gets older but for now i wouldnt be too bothered by it.

You cant expect your children to do everything together, i have 3 children aged 5yrs, 4yrs and 3yrs, my eldest has been going to nannys for a sleepover since he was 3 the other 2 have only recently started going and they never all go at once, this week only the eldest has gone, last week the 2 youngest went and next week the youngest is going alone. It gives them all time to have some individual attention with either my mum or with me and DP and a break from each other. If you dont want your eldest to go then thats ok but dont stop her going just because her sister cant.

If you’re worried they’re not going to look after her properly, then absolutely don’t let her stay. She’s your daughter and you get the say.

However, that wasn’t really what you said in your OP. I’m struggling to grasp the relationship you have with them really. It sounds like you really don’t like them but I can’t quite figure it out.

Initially you seemed pissed off that they wouldn’t take them both and then I’m that they wouldn’t look after her properly, speak to her weirdly etc. That’s what I’m finding a bit muddling.

Ignore the rogue ‘I’m’.

Don't be a barrier to your children having a relationship with their grandparents. The bond with dd2 will develop over time circumstances mean that it's difficult to do that right now.

I think you fear more that the relationship will go well and it just brings up the painful reminder that your relationship isn't as good as it could be.

To improve this I suggest chose your battles. Is it really necessary to fight over a film? Try to take a deep breath step back.

I’m sure if people had known the backstory they would not encourage you to let your daughter stay. Stay firm and say no.

If you dont want your children to go then just say no.
I assume you are a single parent if you are in an extended household?

Well, on the face of it there isn’t any logic to not letting your elder girl stay with them - sounds like she’d enjoy it, it’s good for her development, it would make them happy, and presumably give you a bit of a break.

I wouldn’t use them being siblings as an excuse as it rings hollow. You are there mother and if you don’t want D1 to go, just say you don’t feel she’s ready as yet. However, I think your fears about them not bonding with D2 may be unfounded, as you say they don’t know her yet, and it’s often easier for grandparents to relate to and cope with an older child. As she gets older I am sure they will love her, and you can suggest the girls stay on different weekends, so everyone gets 1 on 1 time.

There’s obviously a lot of baggage with your Dad. It doesn’t sound like you want him out of your life, so are there ways you could both work to improve your relationship for everyone’s benefit? Sometimes when things are tricky, phoning rather than texting can be better - it’s so easy to misinterpret texts and emails.

Their mother!

I didn't need to read any further than the first sentence, "My Dad and his wife want DD1 to stay overnight and I don't want her to."

What more is there to say? You are the parent. If you don't want your child/children to stay overnight, they don't stay overnight. There's no need for angst or doubt over it. You're in charge; just politely decline their invitation.

No grandparent needs, nor has any right, to have children overnight. End of.

My children (now grown) never stayed overnight with either set of grandparents.

I have GC who have stayed overnight very occasionally when my AC needed them to. I would not dream of asking to have them overnight. I am here to help if needed, but their place is at home with their parents.

Sounds like you hold a lot of resentment toward your dad. You could've looked at the movies trailer before sniping about what it may or may not be about.
I think YABU.

I agree with others that it doesn't have to be both or neither, but if you don't want overnights then they don't happen!

Just reading your update OP...

I think it is just about taking some time to untangle your feelings and decide on your boundaries.

I would try and encourage them not to feed her chocolate all day or let her get away with bad behaviour, but I wouldn’t let it stop them seeing her - neither thing will do her any great harm on one overnight every couple months.

The comment your Dad made to your daughter is obviously much more concerning, and I would personally raise that directly with him next time it happens.

One option is for you to say she’s not ready yet, but perhaps when she is eg 5 - you might feel more comfortable when she’s older and can report back.